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Christa Elza: [00:00:00] I think it's important to kind of understand and peel back the layers and understand a little bit high level science what's going on why protein in itself isn't going to cause cancer. but too much of it could activate something that could, if left unopposed and not turned off or not turned off for a period of time, you know, could pose a risk.
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Christa Elza: welcome back to another episode of the wild and well
collective today, we're going to be talking about something that might feel a little overwhelming in terms of science conversation, but it's honestly, the more I learn, the more questions I have. And this particular [00:01:00] subject is something that I've had questions about in my head and finally did a little bit of research.
And, I guess we don't, you'll find out don't really have a specific answer, but there's definitely some more information to chew on. And the topic is, yeah. The conversation around whether or not high protein diet can lead to cancer via a mechanism, via, a kinase in our body, a protein kinase called mTOR.
So this has always kind of confused me because on one hand, you know, we're set, we're told, okay, you want to eat a good amount of animal protein at each meal with enough of the amino acid leucine, which is inside animal protein, because leucine activates, MTOR and we'll talk a little bit about what that is, but it activates MTOR and then MTOR can help the growth of muscle, but it doesn't just activate the growth of muscle.
It activates cellular turnover, cell proliferation in general, which can put us at higher risk [00:02:00] for cancer proliferation, right? So it doesn't discriminate on what it's helping to grow. And then the other hand, we've got anti aging medications like rapamycin that's whole purpose is to actively turn off mTOR because, it has an aging aspect to it, right?
So rapamycin kind of turns that down and it is considered an anti aging medication. So then the question is, well, what are we doing then? Are we eating high protein? Are we not eating high protein based on this kind of information? So, You know, bear with me while you just kind of go through a little bit of sciencey stuff and there's not going to be, because studies haven't shown a specific answer, but I kind of want to break this down for us today.
Sheree: I think it's such an interesting topic and by all means, definitely not an area that I would ever say I'm an expert in. I feel like you have to be very specialized when it comes to cancer and cancer nutrition. And I actually had a client the other day, we were talking about this and she goes, Oh, well.
You know, I'm coming at this from the approach, I really want to get metabolically active. She's fully recovered as a cancer patient, you know, in full remission. [00:03:00] But, she's going, if I eat more protein, you know, like, there is research that supports you shouldn't be having any more than 70 grams of protein per day as a female.
And, is this actually going to You know, obviously there's going to be fear, there's going to be, questions, there's going to be, you know, we don't know what is triggering things to turn on or off in the body, in respect to this, so I'm really pleased we're having this conversation, even if it's just to bring a little bit more awareness to what we can do, or what research is out there, and also abolish some of the misunderstandings, because I think there's also a lot of misunderstandings around the fact that, you know, red meat is horrific for cancer, and there are different things Cancer types that there are different foods that are going to activate different things as well from my understanding So we do have to be really mindful and I think it's important to really dive into the research before just taking anything at face value
Christa Elza: Yeah, so to start and you know in this conversation I'll explain kind of high level what mTOR is It's a key protein kinase and it functions as a central regulator of [00:04:00] cell cellular metabolism of growth and it's activated.
Think of mTOR like a light switch. So if it's off, then there's not rapid cell replication. When it's turned on, there's growth in cells, right? So we need that, much like everything in our body. It's not that we don't want mTOR. We do need to have it. It's just that if it's on a lot, then we have excessive cell proliferation and reduced Cell death or apoptosis, right?
So there's less cellular death, there's more growth. So there's times that we want it on. Go ahead.
Sheree: I just want to pause you because I'm like, big sciencey words. Let's break it down a little bit.
Christa Elza: Oh, proliferation. Yeah, like reproduction. There's a lot, right? So, we want a balance in that. And the things that turn mTOR on are going to be growth factors.
which we all need, for muscle growth, for cell turnover, for, you know, you're thinking about even like your skin on your face [00:05:00] aging. We want to have cell turnover, right? We want, we don't want to be lingering around with cells that don't die like they should. so we want this to turn on. And it turns on with protein, so nutrition.
So high protein, like I said at the beginning contains different amino acids and the particular amino acid that turns it on is leucine. So you want, that's where you get kind of, you want to have about 30 grams of animal protein to activate enough leucine to get enough leucine to actually turn the light switch on.
And so that does serve a purpose because we want to have good, strong, healthy muscles. We want to have good, strong. Healthy immune system, all the cells we want to turn that on. It's not that we never want to turn it on, but when it's on constantly or too often, then we could run into problems with cancer.
And that's probably why what you were saying, your client who, had seen a nutritionist was guided to not eat a ton of protein. That's one school of thought because there hasn't been enough. It's difficult to do studies because [00:06:00] there's so many other factors. , and human studies are a little bit harder, especially when it comes to nutrition for long periods of time, because we want to eat what we want to eat.
You know, we don't want to be eating a certain way for five straight years. So some of these studies are a little bit hard and we aren't exactly the same as mice when it comes to metabolism and things like that. I mean, it's a good place to start, and studies, you know, it's kind of been wonky and that's one way of thinking that the protein.
you know, turns it on too much or too often. And so you don't want to do high protein. The other confusing part though, is that, rapamycin, which rapamycin is a, It was found, actually, it's interesting, it's a bacterial product, and it was found, in soil samples on Eastern Island, on Easter Island, and the island is called Rapa Nui, I guess that's the actual name of it, and so they named this bacteria Rapamycin, but what they found and how it was initially used was to suppress immune function in, it's definitely, it's still used in, organ [00:07:00] transplants.
So, you know, when you have a heart transplant, when you have a kidney transplant, you've got to suppress your own immune system to prevent rejection. So it turns off that, it turns off the immune system in that way. But it's also used in lower doses to turn off mTOR. And it's been found that it can be used, for anti aging because of the cell turnover, the loss of cell death with mTOR, we want our body to not have a lot of zombie cells or senescent cells, right?
We want some of these cells to, go through apoptosis like they should and to kind of slow down proliferation of maybe things like cancers, right? So anti aging, it has been used for, anti aging. But what I find interesting is it highlights the dual role of mentor because the normal cellular function and disease states, right?
It's like it highlights that we want it, but we don't want it. We want it, but we don't want it. And I find the body is really interesting like that. Like everything needs kind of the goalie locks effect. We want a little bit of stress with [00:08:00] exercise, but we don't want too much stress in the body to break it down, right?
A little bit of breakdown is good because it encourages us. mitochondria, more, you know, health in general in our body. So a little bit of stress is great, but we don't want too much of it. Same with something like mTOR. We want it turned on, but we don't want it turned on all the time. Does that make sense?
Yeah, so I think what's important is that we need to have more of a balance in that some of the studies there have been some observational studies again, it's hard to have long term studies on diet in humans and it's also had mixed results. Some of the studies have suggested a correlation between high protein intake and increased cancer risk.
especially for things like colorectal cancer. And then others don't find significant association at all. So it's really hard to, control lifestyle factors to in humans across the board, make, you know, that's just not, humane to do studies like that. So. So it's difficult to really nail it down.
I'd also argue that protein [00:09:00] and muscle health is important as you're going through something like cancer, because you want to have building blocks. You want to maintain your strength, right? So there is that balance there. And I think that there's just really needs to be more robust research.
Randomized control trials can be helpful for this. But you want to, we want to learn kind of the nuance. The nuance to this so that we can be giving our patients, our clients good. Advice. And what do we want to do? You know, are we going to do the high protein? Are we going to do moderation? And I think , this topic really, comes up because we were preaching a lot of high protein lately, especially with GLP one, with losing weight and wanting to have that balance between fat loss and muscle loss.
And we know that as we age, we lose muscle. So it's important to get enough nutrition in there. You know, for me. If my opinion matters, I would say moderate intake, you know, I think many people are grossly under eating the right amount of protein [00:10:00] and that has multiple downstream effects, but keeping it kind of moderate, you know, not feeling like you have to eat 200 grams of protein a day, consistently week after week.
, that's where we could kind of find some of the balance and, you know, And then also just taking on other, lifestyle habits of not drinking alcohol every day and supplementing where we need to so that we're supporting the immune system so that our bodies have a good balance, to keep checks and balances on cell growth, right?
I mean, that's kind of where, after going through this and kind of where I sat with this back and forth, where I land is that the body needs a little bit of both.
Sheree: I think it's really important, like you said, to factor in the lifestyle factors, and I think, just like when we're talking about metabolism, or we're talking about hormones, or anything, I think it's very easy to get fixated on one particular thing.
Like, okay, this is the answer, and if I just don't eat too much protein, then I'm not gonna End up with cancer or do you know what I mean? Like we can start to draw these giant conclusions in our mind, whether [00:11:00] it's because we see a headline somewhere or we read an article and suddenly we've got a bias and I think what's really powerful here is we're having the conversation that is giving you a little bit more of a critical thinking approach and Also going, okay, there are more things to consider and more things to factor in than just your protein intake alone.
We know prevention is the best, like the best thing that we can possibly do versus trying to treat and then rehabilitate, you know, I always say prehab before rehab. And so bringing in this idea that, yeah, okay, having enough protein, because like you said, I don't want this to now put people off consuming their adequate protein intake.
That is something that most people are exchanging ours, like to get. The woman that I work with to eat 100 grams of protein a day is suddenly like it's it can be really overwhelming It can be challenging and we're not sitting here saying that that's now suddenly the number that's wrong But are you having enough leafy greens?
Like we need to think about how are you? You know, we know that the brassica family is one of the best in terms of being [00:12:00] able to support our detoxification and making sure that that's giving us the nutrients we need. In fact, like there's a lot of research to support high doses of the brassica can be effective in supporting cancer treatments.
So, you know, there are so many factors to consider. It's not just, okay, let's abolish this one nutrient. I think that's generally where our brain goes to. It's like, what can we add in? Are we training enough? You know, maybe there's, In the male side of things, in the bodybuilding world, maybe there is this overconsumption, you know, isoleucine, leucine and valine are the three that everyone focuses on when we hit the gym.
They're the three essential amino acids in that respect. So is there an overconsumption there? And is it about bringing things back into balance? And I think that's a huge part of the conversation that we have to make sure we're having is we're not coming at this from a One size fits all. But we're also coming at this from a very holistic space of what other things can you be doing in terms of prevention?
And can we keep this in our minds so that we're not overconsuming and finding that Goldilocks approach? Like you said,
Christa Elza: yeah. And [00:13:00] the reason I wanted to kind of bring this up today and have this conversation is that I think sometimes, it's hard to just take something for like, you know, your client saying, Okay, my nutritionist said don't eat protein.
Well, I don't know. My mind gets curious of why. What's wrong with protein? And so I think it's important to kind of understand and peel back the layers and understand a little bit high level science what's going on why protein in itself isn't going to cause cancer. but too much of it could activate something that could, if left unopposed and not turned off or not turned off for a period of time, you know, could pose a risk.
This is also where, if it's appropriate to do Fasting, it could be helpful because during fasting you're turning some of that off because you're not intaking, you're not intaking protein during your fast, you're going to release some mTOR, you know, growth hormone in general from our brain, will activate it.
There's multiple things that will activate it. But protein certainly does and so if you're [00:14:00] doing, if you're kind of combining maybe a higher protein with some intermittent fasting, if it's appropriate for you, you know, there you go. You've got some intermittent time during the day where it's turned off or during your, you know, 24 hour period.
So there's many ways to look at it and I think there's not one size fits all of what you should be eating or what you shouldn't be, but I would say kind of the moderate, One in, you know, within pounds, we say one gram per pound of ideal body weight. That's probably on the higher side of what you should be doing.
I know for me, I try to keep it around 90 grams a day. And to me, that's a moderate, that's a moderate amount, right? And then there's a period of fasting overnight, maybe 10 hour fasting. So I think you just kind of have to take it for what it's worth. And for yourself, it's not a cause for panic and to stop eating protein by any means, but I think it's just important to understand the checks and balances of our body, and then you can make more educated decisions for yourself.
based on that information.
Sheree: I love that. And I love that we've had this opportunity to have a session and [00:15:00] some research then just getting people to think a little bit more critically, like we're not sitting here telling you what to do, but just having your mind open to the fact that there are a variety of different options and hopefully a deeper understanding now of the fact that things can be turned on and off in the body is even probably a light bulb moment for some people too.
Christa Elza: Hope you've enjoyed it. If you have questions, feel free to reach out to us at any time. And thank you for joining us for another episode of the Wild and Well Collective.
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