Rose MacKenzie - Original Recording Ep.63
Rose MacKenzie: [00:00:00] I think one thing that we've been lied to for a really long time is, yeah, we don't need to ovulate, we can suppress our hormones, we'll pick them back up when [00:00:08] we want them our mood is not affected by our hormones, or the opposite, they're like, your mood is only your hormones, and [00:00:16] we've been lied to in a lot of different ways, and this is really More than just fertility tracking to try to conceive or to [00:00:24] avoid a pregnancy.
This is health promotion.
Welcome to the wild and well, a collective podcast where we [00:00:32] believe empowered health is your superpower. We have combined our expertise in medicine and nutrition to bring you the latest research, expert insights and [00:00:40] success stories of people on a mission to live a big life. So buckle up and get ready to learn how to live wildly well.
[00:00:48] Today we have a super interesting conversation all around hormones [00:00:56] and we have the medical affairs specialist at Mira Rose who assists with healthcare professionals [00:01:04] and providers to successfully use the mirror device with their patients. She has almost 10 years of experience as a natural family planning [00:01:12] instructor trained in the Marquette method and symptom thermal method.
Rose has extensive experience assisting women using the [00:01:20] mirror monitor for hormone monitoring and health promotion, including women tracking their hormones with regular cycles, as well as [00:01:28] irregular cycles. This is a super interesting conversation. I'm so glad that you're here and tune in.
Christa Elza: All right. I'm so excited [00:01:36] to have Rose McKenzie here with Mira Fertility Tracker. We're going to talk all things about hormones, whether you're [00:01:44] looking for to track your hormones for fertility. Or if you're looking to really just figure out where you're at, cause you're in perimenopause, or you're [00:01:52] not quite even sure where you're at, we're going to talk about this amazing device that I've had the pleasure of experimenting with for a month [00:02:00] and how it really helps us navigate whatever it is that we need to navigate.
Rose, I'm just going to have you start out, tell us a little bit about the [00:02:08] device itself and what it's capable of. And then we'll just dive into different ways that, that women can use this.
Rose MacKenzie: Sure. So the device itself is [00:02:16] a little handheld. We sometimes people refer to it as the egg. It's a little analyzer.
And then women begin collecting first morning [00:02:24] urine samples and they dip a wand into that urine. They put the one into the device and 21 minutes later, you now have a graph [00:02:32] result of hormones. We can track up to four hormones. There is LHFSH, then a urine metabolite of estrogen is E3G, [00:02:40] urine metabolite of progesterone as PDG.
And just starting there, I think we could probably talk about a lot of different things, but so just [00:02:48] to summarize, it's an at home testing device that will read multiple hormone levels and then graph it for you in your free phone app.
[00:02:56] Well it gets even better because then providers can see the data real time as well so if you have a provider working with you, whether that be a [00:03:04] lot of different of course types of providers out there but it could be.
Your acupuncturist, your health coach, your fertility awareness instructor, a [00:03:12] different type of provider, whoever understands MIRA can view that data on our secure platform and be using that to make different [00:03:20] health choices and different interventions and, and lead you to ultimate health.
Sheree: I love that. So if we [00:03:28] think about this from like a real traditional perspective, some women are so new to even the idea of tracking hormones and the ways we [00:03:36] can track it, it can be very overwhelming.
And I'm just wondering, like, We, and Krista mentioned at the beginning, it doesn't always have to be about fertility. A lot of the work [00:03:44] that both Krista and I do with our clients isn't always centered around fertility. It might be coming off hormonal contraceptives. It might be going through a perimenopause or menopausal [00:03:52] phase.
It might be actually trying for a baby. Like when we think about the device itself and the, like the ability, and the [00:04:00] freedom that this gives a woman are you able to explain a little bit about what makes the mirror different than using like [00:04:08] population testing kits or allied strips.
Rose MacKenzie: Well, so if we talk about a basic LH test strip, it is [00:04:16] looking for one hormone, just LH.
And if you understand what LH does is it's supposed to be the trigger, the signal that tells [00:04:24] your body to release an egg. So it should be a rapid up and down level. So testing those at home, can you find that? [00:04:32] Yes. But what are the other hormone levels doing? Are they coordinated with that LH surge? We know to have a healthy successful [00:04:40] ovulation, you should see a trigger of LH and FSH together.
And if you don't, then we're much more suspicious that this might not lead to a successful [00:04:48] ovulation. You also want to see, do you see rising estrogen leading to that LH surge? That's the prep work. I like to say that estrogen is the multitasker at the [00:04:56] party. They're the ones that are as the level is rising, it's building up your uterine lining, it's maturing that egg, it's causing your cervical mucous pattern to [00:05:04] change.
So you can see those things maybe indirectly with a trachea and cervical mucus, for example, but to see that level directly on a [00:05:12] graph on your mirror data is something else. Because again, you can see whether it's doing its job or not. So the simple answer [00:05:20] is an LH test strip does one simple thing. It tracks LH only, whereas the mirror device, up to four hormones at once, and you can really see Again, are [00:05:28] they coordinated?
Are they balanced? Are they doing what they're supposed to at the right time? And then, what's the overall picture here? [00:05:36] And you can use that, as you mentioned, for so many different things. You could be using it because you are watching your fertility return after coming off [00:05:44] birth control or after having a baby.
Many people forget, well, after you have a baby, if you're breastfeeding, your fertility is suppressed for a period of time. [00:05:52] And when might that come back? You can track your hormones to watch them return. It's really actually [00:06:00] very empowering for women to be able to see what their hormone levels are doing and possibly start correlating those symptoms.
Oh, I [00:06:08] generally, for example, don't feel great before my period starts. Well, now you start tracking and it's because I'm in the second part of my luteal phase when [00:06:16] my hormones are dropping and that's why I don't feel very good or that's why I don't feel like going out, like I had these big plans set up and now you're like you come [00:06:24] to the day and you're like I don't really feel like going.
So it's really, again, it's so empowering for you to be able to see those hormone levels.
Christa Elza: [00:06:32] Yeah. So why would you recommend and I, you know, I have my own answer to this too, but why would you recommend this versus just checking a blood [00:06:40] sample at certain times of the cycle?
Rose MacKenzie: So obviously serum has been around for a long time.
It has lots of different [00:06:48] benefits to it. Many people like to do serum levels because that's the only thing they know. That's what their provider has them do. But a [00:06:56] disadvantage to serum tests is it is a snapshot in time. So it's your hormone level at this exact minute on this exact [00:07:04] day.
And that can provide us value. If you have, let's say an abnormally high glucose, for example, you got that checked, you found that out. Now we can do [00:07:12] something about that. But in respects to a hormone, when a hormone. fluctuates often. And that single data point does not [00:07:20] tell you anything or doesn't tell you enough.
Then that's where the urine metabolites are very helpful because you can do them on an ongoing basis. You could [00:07:28] do them daily. You could do them every other day, but an extended period of time gives you a lot more insight into what's actually [00:07:36] happening versus just one single snapshot in time.
Christa Elza: Yeah, I love that because, even in a single [00:07:44] day, our hormones are going to go, they're going to shift just because it's pulsed from the brain.
So I find this really, really interesting. And I think [00:07:52] Sheree will talk a little bit more about her ideal patients with fertility and, most of my patients are not looking to get pregnant. They are just wondering what the [00:08:00] heck, number one, they've had an ablation, so they don't, they're not having a regular period.
They have no idea where they are. Or they have PCOS and so they've [00:08:08] got very erratic, irregular periods. We have no idea what's going on. Or you're just plain old, in your mid to late forties and it's [00:08:16] just, why do I feel the way that I feel? Do I need progesterone? Do I not? If you're still having a period.
Most likely you don't need estrogen, but most [00:08:24] people need progesterone long before they are really even thinking that they need hormone replacement. [00:08:32] So that's why I personally love it because it shows that up and down, it tells you where you're at. And I find that really, really [00:08:40] interesting.
Like you said, to correlate how you feel, which might be different Monday versus Tuesday. [00:08:48] Whoa, this is, you know, you hear that saying like perimenopause is a rollercoaster. And when you see the actual graph, it's pretty interesting to see [00:08:56] how the ovaries decide to work one day. And the next day they're like, I don't know, maybe not.
Yeah. I just love
Sheree: it.
Rose MacKenzie: [00:09:04] Oh, you touched on a little bit is the hormones do fluctuate a lot and they do change. And so a urine metabolite has that benefit of it's a representation of a longer period [00:09:12] of time because it's your, of course, kidneys filtering, and then it concentrates into your urine and then you're seeing it.
And it's a better representation of the previous day than [00:09:20] just that again, single blood tests showing you this exact moment of this day.
Sheree: Getting to go and do your blood work can be an [00:09:28] absolute nightmare. Like you got to go on day three and then you got to go on day 21 or 22. And Oh, great. This day that I happened to be testing was the day and the cycle that happened to be a little bit [00:09:36] shorter than normal.
So did I miss my window? And it just, it gets really messy and people are already short on time. So having the ability to do something like this [00:09:44] at home and then have someone, not just you look at it and go, cause I think that's the other half of it is if you look at, Your own readings, you're like, what the heck?
Or you get the [00:09:52] doctor's feedback back and they're like, yep, everything's normal. And you're sitting there wondering like how many women have sat at home or even sat in the doctor's office and being told [00:10:00] everything is normal. But when you get this, like you said, it's an empowering tool in front of you.
You've got the data in front of you and you've got [00:10:08] someone that can help support you and understanding that data. It completely changes the game. We forget as women, we are governed by [00:10:16] our hormones. Predominantly. We have that infradian rhythm. We have that internal clock. Whether you were going through, a different phase, whether, it's [00:10:24] puberty, whether it's post puberty, whether it's the reverse puberty of menopause, like whether it's conception.
This just gives women that tool [00:10:32] to be able to have some real, I think, live feedback as well, because, I'm not just dealing with women that come in that have the PCOS or are trying to fall [00:10:40] pregnant or are coming off birth control. One of my clients the other day was talking about, she's like, I get really bad.
Migraines and really bad headaches, but it can't seem to [00:10:48] track like or specify which phase of my cycle it is. And I'm like, yeah, but maybe there's just something weird going on with your estrogen. And so [00:10:56] having something like this is going to be able to tell us, or a lot of the time we look at our bodies and we look at our symptoms and we put ourselves in a box and go, [00:11:04] I'm estrogen dominant.
They think they have too much estrogen. So they start taking things like dim or they start taking things to clear out the estrogen. It's not [00:11:12] that there's too much estrogen. It's that there's not enough progesterone like Krista was mentioning. And so you can end up kind of self diagnosing or putting yourself in a box [00:11:20] and self treating and it can actually do more harm than good.
So having that real time data, that real time feedback [00:11:28] is amazing. And we were talking just before we got on about how this can be even more empowering than something like. Other ways you may start to track, [00:11:36] I've used basal body temperature before, but can you talk about, the difference tracking how this can be a whole nother level?
Rose MacKenzie: [00:11:44] Yeah, I think the first thing that's a benefit to this is you can get started immediately. So it doesn't matter what part of the cycle you're on, whether your cycles are [00:11:52] long, irregular, whether they're. too short, it doesn't matter. It arrives in the mail. As long as you're not on your period, you start testing.
So really it's [00:12:00] very flexible to someone's situation. I, myself, I'm a fertility awareness instructor. I love women being able to track their hormones. So track [00:12:08] cervical mucus, track temperature. I love those. and Mira compliments this well, because it's looking at the same thing, but from a different angle.[00:12:16]
And When you have that let's say temperature data, but you also have your mirror progesterone, one might be telling you something. Your temperature might go [00:12:24] up, but then you look at your mirror progesterone and you're like, oh, but it's low. So yes, my temperature did change saying I ovulated, [00:12:32] but what was the quality of that?
How high did my progesterone get to stay high enough, long enough, all those things. And It's just more [00:12:40] data. And so it's not to replace. Again, I still love tracking cervical mucus tracking and temperature tracking and those other [00:12:48] tools. But why don't we equip women with more tools in their tool belt to really get the care they need?
And I'm sure you've. I've seen this as well [00:12:56] that a patient may be having a quote, unquote, regular cycle, but there's problems, there's problems underlying in [00:13:04] that regular cycle and sometimes it's so immediate when someone starts testing on Mira, I'm like, Oh, [00:13:12] that's not right. And it can be in some ways discouraging for patients when they start testing and they're like, Oh no, my data doesn't look like what it's [00:13:20] supposed to, but instead of seeing it as a.
It's this burden. I instead see as an opportunity. You now know something you didn't [00:13:28] know before. And now you can take strides to improve that. And we know we're ever changing. I have had women whose cycles looked beautiful. [00:13:36] And then two cycles later, they don't. And then I get to ask them, well, what changed?
Did [00:13:44] you start a new medication, a new supplement? Did you just start intermittent fasting? Did you just start something that changed [00:13:52] in your life? And it's amazing. Sometimes I'll I have an exact situation I can think of. she thought she was doing something good, She decided she was going to cut [00:14:00] out snacking in between eating.
And she cut out cheese in her diet. Well, so in my assessment with her, all of [00:14:08] a sudden, she's like, my cycles just vanished. She was having regular cycles and she's like, I'm on cycle day 50 and I haven't ovulated yet. And [00:14:16] so we do this assessment backwards and we look and she's like, well, I've been intermittent fasting for about a year.
So she had already been doing that. That didn't [00:14:24] change. But then when she switched to not eating between meals and cutting out cheese, I did an assessment with her and I was like, I think you don't [00:14:32] have enough healthy fat in your diet anymore. And you're now you cut out all this extra eating and your body was like, Oh no, [00:14:40] can't get pregnant right now.
Not healthy, not a good time to get pregnant. And it shut it down, shut down ovulation. And so it's [00:14:48] amazing to see again, these sometimes they can be very abrupt changes, either good or bad. And you can exactly see what's [00:14:56] happening when you have someone testing again, their hormones like this.
Christa Elza: I love it. And it's so easy to use this.
I know you said you call it the egg [00:15:04] and I like this device because it can sound cumbersome to be like, oh, my gosh, I've got to collect something every single morning. But honestly, it was. [00:15:12] Really easy to do that every, keep it just right there in the bathroom and you have this little stick and and then you just put it in the device and go [00:15:20] about getting ready.
And within 20 minutes, it syncs to your phone, which was amazing to see that information. I can relate though, to that, like, [00:15:28] Oh man, because me being in my mid forties, seeing that number, like I thought I was on a good track. And then the estrogen dropped off the [00:15:36] next day. I'm like, Oh gosh.
But what do you do with that information? At least now, so it's like, oh, well, this is how, this is why I feel. [00:15:44] More fatigued or more irritable and it's okay. This is just what's going on right now. And how can I support myself better? Whether it's diet, exercise, [00:15:52] meditation, or maybe hormone replacement at some point, right?
Like, so I think it does empower you in that sense to not feel like, oh, I'm just going [00:16:00] crazy. And it's like, well, this is just physiologically what's going on. Now I can connect it with how I'm feeling [00:16:08] physically. Instead of wandering around going, why do I feel like garbage today? Like it's, or why do I feel amazing today?
Or why is my husband cute today? Why is he not? [00:16:16] It's all in the science, it is. Yeah, I think having that [00:16:24] information on the daily is amazing. I want you to go back to when you mentioned maybe every other day. Is that something that you find some women that [00:16:32] especially in perimenopause, we're not like, tracking for pregnancy.
Is that something that that works? Well, do you find when people are wanting to use this long [00:16:40] term?
Rose MacKenzie: Yeah, that's actually one thing that I love about the solution is the device will just read a wand each time you insert one. And so you're [00:16:48] not locked into, let's say you're about to go on vacation, you can choose to bring it or you can choose to leave it at home.
Nothing bad is going to happen with [00:16:56] not testing. And you can pick it right back up as soon as you get back. If you miss a day, you do not have to kick yourself when you get to work and you're [00:17:04] like, Oh, I forgot to test today. It's okay. You just pick back up testing the next day. For those who [00:17:12] have long irregular cycles, maybe unmanaged testing every other day can be a great solution because [00:17:20] you're looking at the overall patterns and trends.
You want all this valuable data, but we do realize there's a cost and there's [00:17:28] also, the time it takes in the morning to test. And so it's, we love to give out the variety, the flexibility, the [00:17:36] versatility of how this device can work. Some of my clients, if they are, let's say that PCOS picture, and we're trying to optimize their [00:17:44] health and get them to a better place.
It may take us a couple of months to get them regulated. And so during that time, if they have a long extended [00:17:52] follicular phase, which is pretty common with PCOS, they can test every other day in that long follicular phase. They finally find their LH surge. I'm like, [00:18:00] great, now we know that you've ovulated.
They can also test every other day in the luteal phase. That is fine. I'm looking for that rise of [00:18:08] progesterone, but I'm also looking at the balance of estrogen. And so testing every other day gives me a lot of data. I would rather have someone test every other day [00:18:16] than do every other month, for example, because they're like, oh, we'll test this month and I'll take a break.
And then, I'd rather have. Multiple cycles in a row at a [00:18:24] limited amount of testing because I can just see exactly how dynamic and how their body is shifting and
Sheree: we can't manage [00:18:32] what we don't measure. Right. And, we know that it takes at least that 100 days for the egg to mature that ends up ovulating.
In fact, it actually points to [00:18:40] almost a whole year. And so when you've got that Prolonged data to be able to analyze as a practitioner, it completely changes the game [00:18:48] for both your patient and yourself because you're now looking at, okay, what did we do? Not even just last month, but what changed even three months ago [00:18:56] for this to have impacted your hormones?
What changed? and I think that's some of the beauty in this is that women can start to understand that it's [00:19:04] not just an immediate, you know, we're always looking for that quick fix that immediate change. Oh, look, if I do this, my hormones are going to respond. [00:19:12] Well, actually we need to put some of that foundational work and we need to make some of these lifestyle changes and oh, look now [00:19:20] a month later, you can see that things are starting to work a little bit better or two months later.
But I'm really curious because we do have this conversation [00:19:28] around hormone tracking and people go, I don't even need to ovulate if I'm not trying to conceive. And. We're starting to change that narrative. I feel like in the [00:19:36] health industry, it's starting to empower women to look a little bit more at their hormones.
But if someone is really new to this, or even [00:19:44] the idea of hormone testing, can you elaborate on why it's actually really important for women to be tracking their hormones regardless of conception? [00:19:52]
Rose MacKenzie: Yes. Well, You already touched on it that we all as females have fluctuating hormones, [00:20:00] and we're our bodies were built that way.
That's how we have good bone density. That's how we have, so many features of our body depend on [00:20:08] our hormones. And I think one thing that we've been lied to for a really long time is, yeah, we don't need to ovulate, we can suppress our [00:20:16] hormones, we'll pick them back up when we want them our mood is not affected by our hormones, or the opposite, they're like, your mood is only your hormones, [00:20:24] and we've been lied to in a lot of different ways, and this is really More than just fertility tracking to [00:20:32] try to conceive or to avoid a pregnancy.
This is health promotion. This is a vital sign, just like any other vital [00:20:40] sign you might take. We track all sorts of things now. We track our sleeping patterns, our heart rates what we eat. So why wouldn't [00:20:48] we track our hormones, which are so fundamental to our health as females? Mm hmm.
Christa Elza: Absolutely. I love [00:20:56] that because I think that women they aren't educated. I think it's becoming more and more that we are, but I know, up [00:21:04] until a decade ago, I thought, okay, just around my period is when things are wobbly and shifty. I think we think our cycle is our period.[00:21:12]
Like we don't even know, you know, a lot of us. You're in your 20s life, especially if things are working as they should, [00:21:20] it doesn't really, I don't think it stands out until something is not working as it should. And then all of a sudden you're like, whoa, okay, what's going on? And then you become [00:21:28] really aware that there are there shifts throughout the month.
And I think that that's our. Also our superpowers, if you can tap into it and you can flow with it. I think it's [00:21:36] great. We have different cycle sinking, right? We have different powers at different parts of our month, but when you try to be social at the [00:21:44] end of the month, it's tough sometimes, those hormones decline and I think, I know for me seeing that objective data really does help validate [00:21:52] and maybe not everybody's that way, but I think it does help validate like, okay.
It is true, like it's not just in the textbook, like this really is [00:22:00] shifting and to see that I think is really, really helpful. I think it's also encouraging for women who have been struggling with irregular [00:22:08] periods or let's say, even the ablation. Like I said, they've had their uterus, ablated burned out.
So they don't have a period every month. And they're [00:22:16] wondering. Well, I don't know where the heck I am in my cycle, so I don't even know how to cycle sync. Do I need hormones? Do I not? Where am I? And I [00:22:24] think having access to that and understanding like, yeah, you're still producing this or you're not is really, really helpful for the [00:22:32] practitioners as well.
Rose MacKenzie: It's the same way for someone who's had a surgical hysterectomy, but still have intact ovaries. They also, they might come to their provider and [00:22:40] think they have an issue that's in a luteal phase, but they don't have a lot of data to back that up. And so as soon as you start testing a mirror, it's amazing.
I see these post [00:22:48] hysterectomy charts and I'm like, if you didn't tell me they had a hysterectomy, it looks just fine. Their hormones are doing what I would expect them to do. Now there's of [00:22:56] course complexities with that. We know that women after hysterectomy tend to Approach menopause faster.
And so there's things to that. But [00:23:04] you could have fluctuating hormones. Now, I don't want to go down a rabbit hole here quickly, but we do have some charts of women with IUDs. [00:23:12] And it's amazing to see. The IUDs and the women's hormones on the backside, still doing what we'd expect them to [00:23:20] do.
And so we think, that we've completely suppressed ovulation and that might not be true.
Sheree: So [00:23:28]
Rose MacKenzie: there's a lot, there's a lot we could talk about with some of these things. Yeah. Right.
Christa Elza: I'm curious though, with what it picks [00:23:36] up, does the mirror pick up bio identical hormone replacement? So is this useful postmenopausal with hormone replacement?
Rose MacKenzie: Sure, so [00:23:44] if someone is on bioidentical hormones, such as like oral vaginal injectable progesterone, that does raise the serum levels [00:23:52] of that hormone. Then they're excreted, it's broken down, excreted into the urine. So someone who is taking oral vaginal injectable [00:24:00] progesterone, we expect the mirror results to show that and be likely maxed out at the top of our scale at 30.
So you might be thinking, well, what's it [00:24:08] useful for then? But what did you give them the progesterone for? Was it to help with their symptoms? Did their symptoms improve? Was it to [00:24:16] balance out their estrogen? What's their estrogen looking like now? So it's one of those things where you're still looking at the dynamic hormones and what's that [00:24:24] pattern.
And did I achieve what I wanted? So was it symptom relief? So maybe you gave oral progesterone help with insomnia in their luteal phase, for [00:24:32] example. And so their symptoms improve, and then you watch and see to make sure their hormones are still responding well. So if they were ovulating, now they're still ovulating.[00:24:40]
So I think I heard you mention it, and I've heard providers say there's two of that, like, Cooperative approach. If someone's still currently ovulating, supporting [00:24:48] that ovulation and so your HRT will likely look different for someone who's currently cycling versus someone who's now in a, I [00:24:56] call sporadic or irregular phase of their cycles.
Okay. Yeah. Interesting.
Sheree: I love that you mentioned that it was going to be my next [00:25:04] question, actually talking about the hysterectomies and also the IUD. So I know you said, you're like, Oh, we don't have to go down that rabbit hole, but can we go down the [00:25:12] rabbit hole of the IUD because there's a massive misconception around it.
Like you say, some women are still ovulating, other women aren't. There's obviously the factor that we [00:25:20] have the synthetic hormones going through our body and some of them times they stay localized. Other times we see them. Do all sorts of changes to us. So are [00:25:28] you able to I think you explained everything around the hysterectomy beautifully.
And I deal with a lot of women who experienced that. We know that's one of the most common surgeries for females [00:25:36] worldwide. it's quite crazy. So it's great to know that you can be tracking your cycle. You can be looking at what's going on hormonally. If you still have your ovaries there, [00:25:44] help that transition through into menopause when it's a little bit earlier as well, but for women that are out there that are on birth control, can we have a little conversation [00:25:52] around How the mirror plays a role there.
Rose MacKenzie: Sure. Sure. It depends on what type of birth control someone's on, how it's going to affect the hormones. We [00:26:00] all know that there's a lot of different varieties out there. But one cool thing is no matter what kind you're on, you can immediately start testing with Mira. And then as [00:26:08] you transition off, you can watch as your hormones return.
I think sometimes maybe you can confirm this with me, but there's a lot of fear of [00:26:16] letting go of a birth control that someone's been on. And so 1 thing that's nice. If you get started with me at 1st, you already have a tool [00:26:24] at your disposal and you've already gotten accustomed to it.
So you can practice testing be testing and then get let's say your ID taken out and [00:26:32] then it's almost like a a flotation device, a safety device for you. You're like, well, I just got rid of my birth control, but I still and I'm already testing my [00:26:40] hormones. Depends on which type of birth control they're on again, some of the IUDs, we actually will see women still ovulating as evidenced by [00:26:48] an LH surge, change of progesterone afterwards.
And of course, as a contraceptive device, that IUD is working in other ways, such as [00:26:56] thinning the uterine lining drying of cervical mucus, preventing sperm egg connection. So other things that it's doing, but it's not actually [00:27:04] preventing. ovulation, which we already touched on. We know ovulation is a healthy event that we should try to support anyway.
I don't want to say too many of my [00:27:12] opinions here, but I think, I think women do deserve to know that their hormones are good. Their hormones [00:27:20] should fluctuate. Ovulation is a really a health stance that you should take is that I want to be ovulating, I should be [00:27:28] supporting ovulation, how can I get there?
I think it's A really poor that some women don't know that it's actually wrong if they're not [00:27:36] ovulating. So you shouldn't just go in a month without ovulating, months without periods. Those are actual red flags, and if we use our menstrual cycle [00:27:44] as a vital sign, or I call it also a Monthly report card back to you.
How well are you supporting your body? And we can talk about this from [00:27:52] both ways of using it to help you to, want to move towards better health, but also not seeing it as, I must be doing something [00:28:00] wrong if I'm not ovulating. There are serious issues that are really hard to overcome. Sometimes that you need an a really well informed [00:28:08] provider who can help you.
So for example, like some really hard PCOS cases that are really hard to get to managed and regularly ovulating, [00:28:16] but you still deserve it. You still deserve to have that regular cycle, but you may need, I would like to joke a second, third, fourth, fifth, I don't care how [00:28:24] many opinions you need of different providers who are going to really help you reach that goal that you deserve, because that is really a sign of health [00:28:32] is a.
Woman should be ovulating and having menstrual periods.
Sheree: love that. I always say ovulation is actually the main event of the cycle. I think we [00:28:40] touched on it before we look at our period and we go, okay, like it's either good or it's bad or it's, yeah, I get pain or I don't, and we just [00:28:48] accept it, like we accept that that's just a.
crappy time of the month or yeah, I've never really been affected and maybe it's just my genetics. And in fact, every single [00:28:56] phase of our cycle and every single hormone is doing something different and playing a different role. And it's all here for our feedback. And when we look at it as [00:29:04] a feedback mechanism versus they are bad or they are good, it's just, Like when we label cortisol is bad because it's our stress hormones.
Like [00:29:12] we need that beautiful little hormone to be doing its job properly, or we wouldn't be surviving. We need to ovulate or, well, we're not going to feel [00:29:20] confident and sexy, but we're also not going to be strengthening our bones and having, that beautiful. Beautiful surge of estrogen each month.
And so I think [00:29:28] it's really powerful. And I think to come back to that theme that really has come through this entire podcast is empowering women with this knowledge [00:29:36] and understanding our own bodies. And that's why I love. Measuring and tracking and, using things like our temperature and our [00:29:44] cervical mucus.
And then this is one of the most incredible tools. Cause like you say, it's at home. It's right there. You see the graph. And then once, [00:29:52] once you're working with a practitioner or provider, you're actually able to understand it too. Like both Christa and I are huge on education. And with our clients, it's [00:30:00] not just, we're just going to read it and tell you what's happening.
It's like, this is what's happening. This is why it's happening. And then you can start to look at it and go, Oh, this makes sense. [00:30:08] and really learn how to balance your hormones for the long term.
Rose MacKenzie: Well, and if a patient doesn't have a wonderful provider like you [00:30:16] guys, if they start testing with Mira, they now have something that they can bring to an appointment that they can say, I'm concerned about [00:30:24] this because of this.
And you can have a much different conversation with a provider and advocate for yourself. And have [00:30:32] less likely to be gaslighted, and again, if it doesn't work, you can seek out that third opinion or fourth or fifth however [00:30:40] many providers you have to get to until you get the care you need.
But again, this data is life changing in so many ways because of [00:30:48] all the things that we've touched on today. But again, I think it all gets summarized in this is you, this is your health. [00:30:56] This is what. You should safeguard and protect and advocate for and acknowledge to be good and do whatever you need [00:31:04] to reach that health that you want, because again, why wouldn't you, this is your own power within your own power to do this.
Christa Elza: Yeah, [00:31:12] exactly. I'm curious when you said up to four hormones, what are the different cases when you would do [00:31:20] FSH versus not, or, like how you have different kinds, like, can you explain what the options are? I thought there was two, one [00:31:28] more than that. And when,
Rose MacKenzie: yeah, there are. There are a few combinations of ones.
Of course, when we started as a company, we started with, the first [00:31:36] hormone LH, and then we brought on estrogen, then we brought on progesterone, then we brought on FSH. So some of the ones are simply just as we developed them. So [00:31:44] all four hormones provide you the most amount of information, but FSH might not be necessary for everyone.
So there's Two times that I [00:31:52] see FSH being the most valuable. FSH at the beginning of your cycle should be slightly elevated to recruit that next follicle, bring [00:32:00] in that next egg that you're going to mature. And so if you're looking for maybe that perimenopausal transition and you're wondering how [00:32:08] hard is your body trying to recruit that next egg?
It can be helpful to trend that FSH over time. So you're seeing, over [00:32:16] cycles, your FSH is continuing to rise. That can be it. Giving a more valuable data of where you are in that transition. [00:32:24] Of course, just like everything, we can't say this is going to predict menopause at this age. We unfortunately can't do that.
But what we can use it for is [00:32:32] coordination and looking at, okay, you're, you were having regular oblatory cycles. Now you're having sporadic cycles. Your FSH is elevated. Now we're [00:32:40] showing that you're progressing into that decline of fertility. It also is ever changing, so if you have someone who's, let's say, [00:32:48] trying to conceive and they're watching that FSH and they're like, Oh no, it's elevated.
That also is dynamic and can [00:32:56] improve if you reduce, let's say, I'll throw some things out there, you reduce inflammatory markers in the body or reduce toxins you're exposed to or [00:33:04] improve your nutrition status. You can actually watch your FSH levels improve at the beginning of the cycle. More empowerment.
More empowerment. [00:33:12] So that's FSH at the beginning of the cycle. The other time that FSH shines is it should surge with the LH surge. So there should be a [00:33:20] coordinated rise and fall of both of those hormones. And again, that gives us a view into, is this going to be a true ovulatory event? No, [00:33:28] I'm going to get really science here for some people, but not every LH surge actually triggers ovulation.
Unfortunately, [00:33:36] we can see that with Let's say PCOS, we can have an attempt at an ovulation, LH surges, it happens, but then the ovary [00:33:44] doesn't respond. So we see that with PCOS, we see that with perimenopause. And so when you see LH without [00:33:52] FSH, I'm a little more suspicious that this attempt's not really going to work.
So it can be very helpful for someone with those hormone [00:34:00] imbalances or PCOS or perimenopause to be tracking FSH as well. And of course it can be daily or [00:34:08] you can minimize that testing to those two periods of time that I've just talked about. Okay.
Christa Elza: Yeah, that's good to know. And you do have a wand that, has all [00:34:16] three, right?
It's got three of the four.
Rose MacKenzie: Yes. Yep. So our max wand is LH, estrogen and progesterone. So [00:34:24] currently that's our heaviest hitter three out of the four hormones. We are developing a four in one wand. It's just not ready yet. So soon you'll be able to test all [00:34:32] four in one wand. But for now you can test max.
So LH estrogen, progesterone, and then it's the same urine you test with the [00:34:40] first one, get a result. You get out your FSH wand, you dip that and get the result for FSH. So you can get all four hormones, same urine sample, but two [00:34:48] different wands at this time. The other combinations, just I know some people get overwhelmed when they look at the website.
The other [00:34:56] combinations again are out there from when we were first developing our wands, but the FertilityPlus wand does have a place. The FertilityPlus wand [00:35:04] removes our progesterone in it. And so it's a cheaper wand. So that wand might be ideal for someone who let's say has just had a baby [00:35:12] and they might go the next 12 months without a cycle.
Well, we know progesterone rises after ovulation. So if you want to reduce the cost, but have [00:35:20] an extended period of time without a cycle, without an ovulation, without a period, then the plus wand might be a good option for you.
Sheree: So I'm [00:35:28] curious, will people be able to use this in terms of tracking, like, not just their cycle, but obviously their fertility, like, as an alternative [00:35:36] to a contraceptive method.
Rose MacKenzie: Yeah, you mean to like avoid a pregnancy? Yes. Yeah. This is, of course, the device itself is not [00:35:44] FDA approved to avoid a pregnancy, but fertility awareness educators, just like they teach you how to track your cervical mucus, teach you how to track your temperature, [00:35:52] a fertility awareness educator that's just like you.
trained in reading the mirror results can also accompany you on learning how to track your biomarkers to avoid a [00:36:00] pregnancy. That is a great use case of this device. And again, something that is getting a lot more traction. I think a lot more women are [00:36:08] wanting a natural way of avoiding a pregnancy and it's really just tapping into what's always been happening.
You just. didn't [00:36:16] track it before. So starting to track that and then choosing of course what your goal is to avoid or achieve a pregnancy.
Christa Elza: Yeah, I think it's so cool. [00:36:24] I love and I like the convenience of this too. I know there are some trackers that either require It to be on the phone, [00:36:32] or it's not quite as comprehensive.
I like that. It's not attached to the phone, which is cool. So you can still have your phone and go about [00:36:40] even if you don't get the result by the time you have to leave the home that morning, how fast race out of the house, it's still there. And so you can sync it to your phone [00:36:48] after your home. Those are some of the perks that I found personally using it that And it just made it really easy.
It's easy to travel with cause it's really [00:36:56] small. So that was cool. It comes in a really cute case. So
Rose MacKenzie: we also use a type of technology that's superior to anything [00:37:04] else on the market. So we use immunofluorescent technology, which is what laboratories use versus the other solutions on the market.
All [00:37:12] use technology called nano gold. So nano gold is of course a validated tool, but basically to summarize it quickly, it's a darkening or a lightening of a [00:37:20] line. And so if you're using a smartphone, it's simply reading how dark or light that line has become, where we use [00:37:28] a separate analyzer, so it's of course calibrated for this, and using immunofluorescent as a We're looking at more of the particles, the [00:37:36] molecules versus how much, let's say, dye has been absorbed in that nano gold.
So again, that's the differences in the 2 types of technology [00:37:44] and how we're able to provide that quantitative measurement.
Christa Elza: I used, and I think there's still validity in the Dutch [00:37:52] tests where I don't know if listeners are familiar, but basically you're collecting. the hormone, the data on the hormone, but then also the metabolites.
So there is [00:38:00] a place for it, which is different. But, I like the idea of having something easy that you can see in real time, the graph too. It's not like you're having [00:38:08] to collect and send away for the information. I also like for patients that, again, you buy the device one time and then you can just, [00:38:16] as you want to buy more wands.
So it just seems more cost effective in the long run. If let's say perimenopause, and you're really trying to track trends [00:38:24] and yeah, track if do I, what I love is the versatility of saying, Hey, here's some progesterone. You may not even need it every month, [00:38:32] but on the months that you're noticing, whoa, my progesterone is not rising and I feel really irritable and I can't sleep.
Yeah. Then that's the month, week three and week four, [00:38:40] take your testosterone and so it really gives the patient and the provider a lot more information and a lot more personalization. [00:38:48] I think for, because we are dynamic and every month is dynamic and so you never know what you're going to get.
And so I think [00:38:56] it gives you so much more just individualized care based on the month, based on the week. [00:39:04] Right. So that's, yeah. really helpful in real time.
Rose MacKenzie: Well, I think you just touched on something that some people aren't really aware is that you When you're in [00:39:12] perimenopause, you may go a cycle that you ovulate, and then you have an anovulatory cycle, and then two ovulatory cycles.
And so [00:39:20] can be ever changing, and I agree with you, you can personalize those instructions and interventions to the patient [00:39:28] and And there's just so much on more understanding on the patient and the provider side of what is happening right now [00:39:36] and what we might do to better manage that. Instead of feeling like I've heard a patient say, like they just couldn't see [00:39:44] out, like they didn't know when things might change or what the outcome might be.
And so like bringing more light to the [00:39:52] situation And I'm not saying this is going to, I would say, fix everything. There may still be symptoms and there, it might be a challenge still, but [00:40:00] again, having this technology and this tool on your side is going to shed more light on what your hormones are doing.
Sheree: I love that. [00:40:08] And I guess just to round this out. If we can give our listeners some tips, obviously go and get a mirror work with someone that's getting [00:40:16] there. It's resonated and landed with you. Like if you want to take it to that next level and you want that extra, level of empowerment when it comes to your hormones.
But if someone's like, [00:40:24] Ooh, this is a lot, this is lots of judges. This is a lot to take in. Where would you recommend someone starts when it comes to tracking their hormones if [00:40:32] they've never done this before?
Rose MacKenzie: Well, I would say don't be afraid because again, it is not something that [00:40:40] you're like committing to forever.
You can simply track your hormones. Work with a provider and see what's going on. It's [00:40:48] not like, something that you have to commit to the next year or anything like that. This is a pretty low threshold to just start up immediately and [00:40:56] see how it goes. My first advice would be, of course, check out Mira, but also find great providers like the two of you.
Like, it's so great, great to [00:41:04] talk to you guys. Like minded in this because again, we know women deserve this type of care. So those would be my two piece of [00:41:12] advice, but I kind of want to flip that on its head and ask you guys, what would you tell our listeners where to start?
Christa Elza: Well, I think your [00:41:20] hormones are happening, whether or not you're tracking them.
So it's happening. And I think that all I can do is add more information to help guide [00:41:28] you in improving. If you're checking this, there's obviously something you want to change or you're really curious, right? In any case, your [00:41:36] curiosity is going to be shown to you. Or if you're having symptoms, you're going to know what's driving those symptoms.
So it's already happening, whether or not you check it. I just think [00:41:44] that it really can help guide you to get the result that you want or to keep yourself healthy. , I don't know who there's [00:41:52] such versatility in this. If you're an athlete, maybe you want to track and make sure that you're not working out too much, or you're trying to lose weight actively and you want to make sure that [00:42:00] you're, you're not overdoing it.
And this is going to give you. An added layer of, am I doing whatever I'm trying to do in a healthy way? [00:42:08] Because like you said, the period is really our report card of health every month because fertility is important and our body will [00:42:16] not do what it feels unsafe to do. And so that's where I go with this.
When you're, don't be overwhelmed [00:42:24] because it's happening naturally, it's just going to give us some information to help. Optimize really
Rose MacKenzie: well. You said something that made me think I think people deserve to [00:42:32] know that a a period app tracker is not the same thing of what we're talking about right now.
Yeah. Just, yeah. FYI, yeah. [00:42:40] Those , I think it is great that there are so many different apps out there and people are logging when their last period was. But I also think that we've done a little bit of a [00:42:48] disservice that, we trust that app that all you enter is a menstrual period in it.
And you say, well, it's on, it says I'm ovulating on day 16. So that's when I'm [00:42:56] ovulating. And I'm like, did you enter any data into it that helped it to determine that? Or essentially, are we back to a calendar [00:43:04] method because so again, empowering people to truly track their cycle in a way that's meaningful versus just [00:43:12] entering a period into an app.
Sheree: Yeah, I love that you brought that up because that's actually the first place I get people to start is to look at, like, a lot [00:43:20] of women are just putting in their period, then they're going, cool. And then they look, okay, well, let's tell me that I ovulate on day 14 or day 16. I'm like, but do [00:43:28] you get any symptoms around that time of ovulation?
Does your cervical mucus change? Are you tracking your temperature? Are you even ovulating every month? It's like, well, [00:43:36] my app told me I am. What is this little device? It's not, reading your body. And so it's changing this mindset and [00:43:44] changing this mentality. Like first and foremost, if you aren't putting something into an app, stop there because some women aren't even logging when the [00:43:52] period is.
And then all they're doing is like in the period, which again, there's nothing wrong with that. That's all we've been taught as parents. Quote unquote important in our cycle, but then [00:44:00] start to understand, okay, well, this phase, I'm in my follicular. What does follicular mean? Okay. Understanding that there are different phases and there are actually [00:44:08] rises and falls of the hormones through the different phases.
Like for some women, this is a completely new concept or they've shut down their hormones for years. Like I was on [00:44:16] the birth control pill for 10 years. I didn't know that. I actually wasn't having a real period. Some people are like, Oh, I'm skipping two or three. [00:44:24] Then I have a period because I'm getting, I would need to give my body that.
And it's like, you're not actually giving your body that. And so it's very similar to just putting [00:44:32] stuff in an app and assuming the app's telling you what's going on. You're not listening to the beautiful biofeedback that is your body. Yes, starting with an app, [00:44:40] but then looking at symptoms, starting to understand what might be going on in different phases, but not also taking that as face value just because the [00:44:48] app said you might get sore boobs this day.
Like, why did you get sore wrists? Why are you getting a headache? Like, dive a little bit deeper, but that [00:44:56] first level, I think, is always the awareness, and that's why this is such an incredible tool, because it'll enhance what we can work with, it'll enhance that [00:45:04] level of awareness, and then give us live feedback moving forward to see what's working.
Christa Elza: Well, I can tell you I have a very regular period. [00:45:12] Okay. Very regular. I can pretty much tell you it is a wild ride. And you look at is happening. It's not this beautiful [00:45:20] rise and fall like it probably was 10 years ago. It's like, and I think it's still, yeah, to just to [00:45:28] echo back that just tracking period gives you one piece of the puzzle, but it's not really.
Pulling back the curtain and showing you what's going on [00:45:36] behind the scenes. And I think that that's where the that's where the juices, right? Like, that's where you can really make a change when you understand what's going on behind the scenes. [00:45:44] And it's great to have a regular period. But what's actually happening there?
Yeah. Where can we connect our, I know we [00:45:52] both have some codes that we can give out so that people can try this device with a bit of a discount, which is amazing. Any other [00:46:00] information, where can our listeners find more information about the mirror device? Do you have a website?
Do you have Instagram? All that. [00:46:08]
Rose MacKenzie: Yeah, so Miracare. com is our website. You can go there and there's lots of resources articles, ebooks, there is, [00:46:16] of course, you can purchase the device, and as listeners today, the discount is our 15%, which is what [00:46:24] we give out to our listening audience. But if you choose to work directly with a provider such as one of these two ladies or someone else, [00:46:32] providers who are connected with Mira again have that access to that provider dashboard, real time data, and they can give you a higher percent off.
So [00:46:40] the provider discount codes, once you're connected with someone, is a 20 percent discount code all the time. No expiration, not a one time use, and it [00:46:48] can be used on top of a one subscription. So the one subscription is a On the website, 10 percent off a provider discount ads on top, making [00:46:56] additional 20 percent off, making it 30 percent off the ongoing cost of the wands.
So we do that because we know patients working with a provider are going to be much [00:47:04] more satisfied. They'll be more compliant with what, you might be suggesting and then have better outcomes. That's why we want to benefit patients working with [00:47:12] a provider. So go to the website. Consider purchasing it, connecting with a provider.
If you will happen to be a provider [00:47:20] listening, please reach out to partnership at MiraCare. com so we can get you connected with that discount code and our dashboard and all the resources we have a [00:47:28] provider specific website with our all our educational materials. Amazing.
Christa Elza: Thank you, Rose, so much for being here and explaining [00:47:36] really the technology is fascinating and I'm happy that you were here to be able to share that more with us and as well with the listeners. So [00:47:44] thanks again for being here.
Rose MacKenzie: Yes.
Christa Elza: Thank you.
If you love this episode, be sure to leave us a review, download and subscribe. If you know [00:47:52] someone that could also benefit from this conversation, please share. That's how we spread empowered health. We'll see you again for another episode of the Wild and Well [00:48:00] Collective.
