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Kiran Krishnan: [00:00:00] She had a, one of our actress in one of the shows she's on has very red and sensitive skin.
And so they're using a lot of foundation and cover up and all [00:00:08] that, but all that just makes it worse. At the end of the day, the skin's even more irritated. And so she said, my brother has this thing, I'm going to try this on you. And she [00:00:16] started using it with an actress and it dramatically improved it.
And to the point where that, that, when, once you take the makeup off, the actresses skin looks perfectly [00:00:24] normal.
Welcome to the wild and well, a collective podcast where we believe empowered health [00:00:32] is your superpower. We have combined our expertise in medicine and nutrition to bring you the latest research, expert insights and success stories of people on a [00:00:40] mission to live a big life. So buckle up and get ready to learn how to live wildly [00:00:48] well. This guest needs no further introduction. Welcome back to the Wild and Wild Collective podcast. [00:00:56] You may have seen that we have a part one and part two all about the skin microbiome. So if you haven't listened to part one, I recommend going and doing that first [00:01:04] and then coming back and joining us in this episode.
We really hope you enjoy the second part as we dive even deeper into some of the incredible [00:01:12] products you can start to use on your skin and Different ways to really support your skin to have a clear, glowing, youthful [00:01:20] complexion from the inside out and the outside in.
Sheree: So when we think about, we've talked about the X ma, we've talked about the aging, we've talked about [00:01:28] the acne and psoriasis, even, and even other skin conditions, you've touched on it as we've talked through it in terms of [00:01:36] the leaky skin, but can you elaborate on this a little bit more?
I think a lot of our listeners are familiar with the leaky gut term. But this [00:01:44] idea of leaky skin, when you hear that, I'm like, Ooh, what's going wrong with my skin for it to be leaky, but you know how that really does. [00:01:52] Not only impact our appearance, but our overall health as well.
Kiran Krishnan: Yeah, and so the reason it is because it becomes a [00:02:00] source of chronic low grade inflammation The skin is you know The barrier that engages a lot with the environment [00:02:08] around you that of course your skin can house a lot of pathogens and fungus You know mold and all kinds of things that can be quite triggering to the immune [00:02:16] system And if the barrier system of the skin is compromised like for example You're The skin is dried out, the ceramide layer is dysfunctional, [00:02:24] the elastin and collagen systems, which also act as barriers in the skin, not only does it keep the skin taut and looking [00:02:32] young and youthful, but it also acts as another layer of barrier system.
And then on top of that, if you lose the pH of the skin, right? So, [00:02:40] and the turnover of the skin. So this is another feature. So we know that. As you get as people get older, one of the features of AIDS skin is that dullness [00:02:48] of the skin, right? One of the things that everyone wants is a glow.
We want the skin to be glowing. Well, the glow of the skin is really [00:02:56] a matter of adequate turnover of the top layer of skin. of the epidermis. So one of the things that happens is the microbes, the [00:03:04] beneficial microbes sitting on the topmost layer of the skin, break down the old skin cells and metabolize them and get rid of them.
That's in [00:03:12] combination with us sloughing it off as well, right? We can remove the skin cells just from, movement and rubbing up against things and all that, [00:03:20] but the natural way is actually the microbes will break down and remove the top most layers of the skin and the layers right [00:03:28] below that have more glow to it, more more moisture and more oil and so on and at the right pH as well.
And [00:03:36] so. All of these aging factors are parts of the barrier system of the skin as well, [00:03:44] right? So if your skin is inflamed if it looks thin if it's irritated if it's sensitive you've got hyperimmunity in [00:03:52] your skin meaning like You're one of those people if you wear a backpack for the day and you'll get a red rash around your shoulders Because of the straps wrapped, [00:04:00] touching that part of the skin.
That's like a contact dermatitis, right? So People's skin where things are contacting it can trigger an immune response [00:04:08] that skin that's not resilient That's hypersensitive and your immune system is in that region triggering all kinds of inflammatory [00:04:16] responses So all of those factors including the aging of the skin leads to the barrier system being compromised and [00:04:24] then things actually leaked through your skin into circulation, right?
So your skin is no longer acting like the barrier system that it should [00:04:32] be acting like and the environmental toxins you're running into. There's something like 80, 000 chemicals. We're all exposed to those [00:04:40] things that should be trapped on the top layers of the skin are leaking through the microbes that are dysfunctional.
The skin are producing toxins that are leaking [00:04:48] through. All of that is causing systemic inflammation. And so the dysfunctional leaky skin is a. huge source of [00:04:56] chronic low grade inflammation, and that chronic low grade inflammation can lead to things like osteoporosis, cardiovascular disease, [00:05:04] Alzheimer's and so on.
And they mapped this out pretty well in that longitudinal study.
Christa Elza: Can you touch on the osteoporosis and leaky [00:05:12] skin that to me is I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around.
Kiran Krishnan: Yeah, absolutely. So, us osteoporosis is a much more [00:05:20] complex issue than than we've all thought. Right? We know that bone is a very complex system.
There's lots of cells [00:05:28] involved. In the formation of bone, you've got osteocytes of course, that can then differentiate into osteoblastic or osteoclastic cells, [00:05:36] which are bone building or bone resorption site. We've got hormones that play a role in bone health, for example. Estrogen is really [00:05:44] important for maintaining bone strength because estrogen stops or reduces bone resorption.
Part of the reason why when women hit perimenopause [00:05:52] and menopause, osteoporosis becomes a big issue. Hormone cycling, immune response in the bone and bone tissue, all of [00:06:00] that controls the osteoblastic osteoclastic balance, right? Osteoblastic cells are the ones that build it, even though they're called [00:06:08] BLAST.
They sound like they're blasting the bone, but they're not. And osteoplastic cells are the ones that actually pull minerals off the bone and do what we call bone [00:06:16] resorption. So studies show that inflammation in the regions where the osteocytes are, which are the precursor cells to [00:06:24] these cells prevent differentiation of those cells to osteoblastic cells, right?
So chronic low grade inflammation from the [00:06:32] skin can actually propagate the formation of osteoclastic cells that are pulling more minerals off the [00:06:40] bone. On top of that, chronic low grade inflammation also screws up hormone balancing. So chronic low grade [00:06:48] inflammation is another feature that can then disrupt estrogen balance, for example, and metabolic balance.
Balance. And so now you've got [00:06:56] potentially lowering estrogen function in the body as a result of the chronic low grade inflammation and increase osteoclastic [00:07:04] activity. So you have two reasons why there's more bone resorption in an individual, especially in women. And so it can [00:07:12] accelerate bone loss. In a given amount of time and it accelerates it beyond the normal linear aging of bone loss, right?
So [00:07:20] that's 1 of the ways in which it can happen. It can certainly also lead to dysfunctions in the role of vitamin D. to [00:07:28] increase calcium absorption in the activation of something called osteocalcin, which is a protein that needs to be activated to stick [00:07:36] calcium on the bone.
Osteocalcin can be disrupted by inflammation in the area as well. So anytime you have inflammation in [00:07:44] an area, your body has a hard time building and repairing things, right? And that's one of the messages I tell people all the time. The best [00:07:52] analogy for that is that, if you have a cut on your skin and you just leave it alone, it'll heal itself, right?
But if you keep rubbing it and irritating it and [00:08:00] causing inflammation, it just never, it'll never heal. And that's the same thing that inflammation does throughout the body. Same thing in the lining of the gut, [00:08:08] chronic inflammation, the lining of the gut negates the repair of the lining of the gut. So inflammation in the bone area or in [00:08:16] serum negates the rebuilding and the re engineering of the bone.
Christa Elza: I love learning stuff like that. This is where the body never ceases to fascinate me. [00:08:24] The
Kiran Krishnan: connections are mind boggling.
Christa Elza: Yeah, the interconnections, you would never think, I just wouldn't think that eczema could actually be leading [00:08:32] to an increase in osteoporosis. I wouldn't have put that together.
So learn something new.
Kiran Krishnan: Yeah, and imagine wrinkles, right? So [00:08:40] we're like, oh, we look at your skin and you go, okay, if I have fine lines, wrinkles, hyperpigmentation, it's super annoying because cosmetically [00:08:48] it's not favorable, right? Nobody wants to have wrinkles and hyperpigmentation. But that same wrinkle and hyperpigmentation is an [00:08:56] indicator of risk of things like heart disease and diabetes and osteoporosis and all these chronic conditions, right?
[00:09:04] So it's just mind boggling to think that what we think about as a veneer, right, on the outside [00:09:12] is actually acting as a driver of dysfunction on the inside. And this is maybe part of the reason why. [00:09:20] We're wired to look at health. From that youth perspective, right? That clean, no lines [00:09:28] in a porcelain like skin were wired to think of that as being healthy.
Whereas if we have lines and aging and all that, we [00:09:36] automatically think of that individual as unhealthy, right? And that may be an because, you know, as your skin ages, it's a [00:09:44] predictor of your internal aging as well.
Sheree: So if we follow that kind of line of thought and we think [00:09:52] about, there is this element of Andy, or if we look in the aesthetics and we've talked about toxins and toxic toxin exposure, [00:10:00] can we touch on like when you do?
Aesthetic things like adding the Botox in, or, we want to get rid of those fine lines and [00:10:08] wrinkles, and we might go through what we probably wouldn't term as functional holistic health. We alluded to it at the beginning, but is it really [00:10:16] that toxic to the body? Is it toxic to the skin?
Does that start to change our microbiome? Is it actually helpful in some way, shape or form to [00:10:24] prevent some of those chronic diseases? I'm super curious.
Kiran Krishnan: Yeah, I think if you're doing things that are an [00:10:32] unnatural practice to reduce wrinkles and all that, it probably doesn't improve the microbiome of the skin and probably doesn't improve the barrier function [00:10:40] of the skin, right?
To me, that's a way of covering up the symptom. Now the. The unfortunate thing is there's almost no [00:10:48] studies on what happens to the skin microbiome through things like microneedling and Chemical peels and [00:10:56] injections and all that right? The assumption is that it's probably not good for the skin microbiome and I did a podcast with a plastic surgeon [00:11:04] that does a lot of the stuff and she has a strong interest in the skin microbiome and she was you know, really torn up of all the, the injections and all [00:11:12] that they do, not knowing what the impact is on the skin microbiome.
Right. So I think there's a lot of studies that are needed to understand [00:11:20] our common practices and how that impacts the skin microbiome. And then my advice to people is that. On some of those things are going to be important to [00:11:28] individuals to make them feel good about themselves.
Right. And I think that's an important factor. I think if you need to get a little [00:11:36] Botox to deal with the 11 lines or the. Some crows feet and that makes you feel better about yourself and you walk around with more confidence [00:11:44] and your mood is better and all that. There's benefit there.
Right? And not to judge anyone that does any of that stuff. I think you should [00:11:52] also then actively. Play a role in trying to do things that we know will be good for your skin microbiome, right? So if you're doing [00:12:00] things that we're not sure are good for your microbiome and likely will be Damaging their skin microbiome, then you should absolutely be doing things that we know [00:12:08] are positively good for your microbiome, right?
So this is part of why we developed the serum to help people to help give people something That [00:12:16] we are showing to be very beneficial for the skin microbiome And then of course the other things have eating right, improving your skin from [00:12:24] within. So taking those lifestyle steps reducing the amount of toxigenic things you're using.
If you're going to do Botox, I would say, [00:12:32] dramatically reduce like the amount of makeup and things that you need to use. If your skin's looking more porcelain and clean, because You've got Botox, and you probably don't [00:12:40] need as much concealer and foundation and all that stuff, right?
So maybe try to go a little bit more bare with the makeup. And so balance, try to balance things out, [00:12:48] right? And I for one don't want to judge anyone for anything they need to do to make themselves feel good and look good. Certainly be conscious [00:12:56] that you have a skin microbiome. You have an ecosystem on your skin that is there to protect your skin and [00:13:04] allow your skin to function the way it's supposed to function.
And a lot of the functions of the skin have been outsourced to that ecosystem. And we [00:13:12] have to just be conscious enough of that. So we make some choices. that help us facilitate that favorable ecosystem, right? [00:13:20] Knowing that we are going to do things that are going to be damaging to that ecosystem.
And we can't get away from that.
Christa Elza: What is your take on [00:13:28] adding supplements like NAD or NMN, NAD precursors. I know there's a lot of talk on that too, like boosting because [00:13:36] that, that declines with age as we know. And so on a cellular level, boosting that. In conjunction, where does that fall in [00:13:44] your protocol?
Kiran Krishnan: So, I categorize those as biohacking things, right? What's interesting about those kinds of things. So [00:13:52] NAD, NMN sirtuins and things that may be reduced sirtuins or activate sirtuins. A lot of that work is. Is still animal based [00:14:00] work and hasn't really translated to humans as well.
There's a lot of controversy over the Harvard research of Sinclair that has [00:14:08] popularized a lot of that work. There's questions about how valid is the data? Is it, does it, they've had to retract some things from [00:14:16] nature and things that they've published in the past. So I think those things are still questionable if they're going to be very helpful.
I think. [00:14:24] Certain cosmetic brands do a really good job of formulating the products with the [00:14:32] consciousness of this, of the skin cells and the mitochondria of the cells and what may or may not be toxic to the cells and also with [00:14:40] the microbiome in mind. So, for example I use young goose.
I don't know if you guys are familiar with that brand, but they do a good job of of [00:14:48] really being conscious of formulating their products, their cleansers, their toners, their moisturizers, all of that stuff. Using all of those [00:14:56] things formulating those types of products with the skin cell in mind and the health of the cell in mind, right?
And so I [00:15:04] lean more towards those kind of product lines that Do a lot of education around skin cells and mitochondria and turnover and Toxicity [00:15:12] to the cells and all that because at least I feel like okay they're putting more effort and more science into what may be good for the skin Versus [00:15:20] just what's hot what's trending?
What's you know? What people are hoping to see on a product they do use an nad product i've used the product. I [00:15:28] feel like it there's benefit To it. I know a lot of people that use their NAD. I think it's like a mask of some sort. And a lot of people swear [00:15:36] by it.
Right. So I don't see any harm in using those things. I don't NAD and amend and all that. I just don't know that if the science is really [00:15:44] there to show that it makes a big difference. Right. But certainly, look at cosmetic companies and the skincare companies that are really focused [00:15:52] in on the health of the cell itself, right?
And I like when companies get that specific on their formulation [00:16:00] work. And that to me, at least means that they're thinking about it deeper.
Christa Elza: Yeah, I agree. I think I always take that with a grain of salt. Anything that's topical [00:16:08] NAD, which is a very large molecule. You can't even really swallow, NAD and have it broken down into it to get into the cell.
So for it to be topical, I [00:16:16] just wondered, and I wondered how, yeah, where it integrates with your protocol. So. I'd love to know a little bit more about your product [00:16:24] specifically that you guys have created. And it one thing that's that kind of helps all buckets, the eczema bucket, the acne bucket, the aging bucket, or is there a difference?
[00:16:32] Like, how does that work?
Kiran Krishnan: Yeah, it's just one part of one product, actually. So I have it here. I know some people may be listening to this. You may not [00:16:40] see it, but it's called it's a bind balancing serum. It's just a little tube. And the way you use it is you shake it up good. And then you put 1 [00:16:48] drop on either side of the face.
and forehead and you rub it in once a day. You can use it on your body as well. Any problematic areas, or if [00:16:56] you just generally want to use it on your body, I add like two or three drops to my lotion. And I put it on right throughout my body. It's it's two [00:17:04] bacillus endospores and it's three other ingredients, right?
So it's a caprolate. And a fatty acid ester. It's to mimic the skin [00:17:12] oils. There's no preservatives, no fragrances, nothing in it. It's as clean as can be. And it rubs right in. We sell a lot [00:17:20] through estheticians and derms and skincare professionals. And the idea is that we're going to be doing lots of things throughout the day that disrupts the skin [00:17:28] microbiome.
If you do this once a day, it helps to reset the microbiome. And we've been able to demonstrate that. In a number of [00:17:36] outcome studies along around acne, for example we have a bunch of cases of eczema and rosacea. And then most recently I mentioned [00:17:44] before we got on officially was on the aging side of skin.
What's awesome nowadays is that there's these amazing high resolution cameras that use [00:17:52] UV light UVB light, infrared and all different types of light to take different types of pictures of the skin. And they can see things [00:18:00] that aren't visible to the naked eye. And then one of the systems actually gives you an age calibration of your skin.
In [00:18:08] the, we did a trial with the skincare professional on, I think it was six individuals. Mm-Hmm. One of the individuals had a lot of discoloration on the skin, so she [00:18:16] had both pink and brown hyperpigmentation on the skin. We saw in a 30 day period of just using this a [00:18:24] 47% reduction.
In the discoloration in the skin, right? That's very noticeable even to the naked eye. And in all the [00:18:32] cases, we saw between a 3 and 5 year reduction in the aging of the skin in 30 days, right? [00:18:40] As measured by, and this is comparing. Their current skin profile, which is looking at the fine lines, wrinkles, poor [00:18:48] size, discoloration, sun damage coloration, UV damage, radiation coloration and so on.
So there's about seven factors that the [00:18:56] thing measures and it compares it. To a large cohort of individuals of that same age group. And then it gives you your skin [00:19:04] age, right? So, in all of the cases, it improved between 3 and 5 years in that 30 day period, and it's visual, you could [00:19:12] see the scans and all that.
So that was really exciting to us because we had 300 plus subjects on the acne [00:19:20] side already knowing that we can dramatically improve acne and improve the tone and clarity of the skin. But we were always curious about the [00:19:28] aid side because we get a lot of. reports back from people that, Hey, my pores look smaller.
My hyperpigmentation is going away. My fine lines [00:19:36] and wrinkles are improving. So now we wanted to quantify that a little bit better. And so that's where we did that partnership with that aesthetic clinic and got that [00:19:44] done. So it's exciting. It's just, it's a one a day once use a day, use it in the morning or evening after you clean your skin before you add [00:19:52] moisturizer.
You add the sieve on there and then you put your moisturizer or sunscreen on top of it. This one is also the one we use as a primer [00:20:00] for makeup and it works incredibly well. My sister is a professional makeup artist and she does movies and TV and all that. She [00:20:08] had a, one of our actress in one of the shows she's on has very red and sensitive skin.
And so they're using a lot of foundation and cover up and all [00:20:16] that, but all that just makes it worse. At the end of the day, the skin's even more irritated. And so she said, my brother has this thing, I'm going to try this on [00:20:24] you. And she started using it with an actress and it dramatically improved it.
And to the point where that, that, when, once you take the makeup off, the [00:20:32] actresses skin looks perfectly normal. Right. So then we went to a fashion week which is completely outside of our scope where there's a lot of models [00:20:40] and right. And a lot of makeup application and all that. And we had a booth and we had all these models using this as a primer [00:20:48] before they put on their makeup.
And they were loving it because And I'm just learning this, right? I'm not a makeup person. I don't know much about makeup. I didn't even know primer [00:20:56] existed until just recently. And I'm like, what is, what are you talking about? What is this primer thing? And my sister was like, use this as a primer.
She kept telling me about it. Cause [00:21:04] she's been using it on her face. And what they all have repeated is that number one, it creates a uniformity on the face where [00:21:12] you've got a much more uniform uptake of the makeup, right? So the makeup looks much more uniform, but the secondary effect, which I didn't know happens is [00:21:20] it prevents the makeup from drying out throughout the day as well.
And this is probably why the people use the sprays, the kind of pick me up sprays from time to [00:21:28] time. So it's preventing the makeup from caking up and drying off. Throughout the day as well, but you have this layer of protection under on your [00:21:36] skin. helping your skin with all the potential negative effects from the cosmetics you're putting on, right?
So that was a very [00:21:44] exciting element for me because I'm like, people aren't going to stop using makeup. You can't expect people to do that. But maybe there's something we can do to help [00:21:52] them while they're using it and reduce any potential Negative effect. So yes, if it's been super exciting to be able to develop this [00:22:00] product and it's the first kind of biome balancing serum using quorum sensing bacterial technology.
So we [00:22:08] hopefully we're pioneering in this space as well.
Christa Elza: That's so incredible. Yeah. And if I'm gathering this correctly, this means I can [00:22:16] use this for my little brown spots that are senescent cells, right? Yeah, my teenage boys can use this for acne.
All: [00:22:24] Absolutely.
Christa Elza: On his eczema and my aging parents can use it on their thinning skin and because you're up regulating.
[00:22:32] bacteria that help to heal the skin no matter the
Kiran Krishnan: condition.
Christa Elza: Yeah, the condition of the skin, Essentially one size fits all, like it's an [00:22:40] adaptogen for the skin needs
Kiran Krishnan: it is. Yeah, that's a great way to describe it. Just like biome balancing in the gut can deal with lots of different [00:22:48] issues, right autoimmune issues, allergies, food sensitivities, IBS, all of these different things we, that's the approach we took is that if we can [00:22:56] balance the skin microbiome on the body, on the face, wherever it may be.
You can get those improved outcomes because most of those [00:23:04] dysfunctions are driven by an imbalance in the microbiome. And basically I think a key thing, because one of the things we [00:23:12] notice with this, and you may notice it when you try it as well, or one of your family members or friends try, if there's a lot of redness in an individual skin, whether [00:23:20] on their face or parts of their body, and they use this even with the first or second application, they'll see a dramatic reduction in the redness.
Right? And then you [00:23:28] have to ask yourself, well, how does that work? Why would this biome balancing serum reduce redness so dramatically? As it [00:23:36] turns out, the redness is a recruitment of immune cells to that region, and it's typically done because of [00:23:44] dysfunctional microbes on the skin.
So if you shut down those microbes and their constant recruitment of the immune system to that part of the skin, the [00:23:52] redness just goes down, right? And it can happen super fast, right? It can happen. We've seen it happen in hours. We had, [00:24:00] for example at one of our aesthetic shows, an esthetician came up to us and she had on her hand, like a significant amount of redness [00:24:08] because of something she put on there that irritated her skin quite a bit and then she washed it off and rubbed it off and all that and it was still super red.[00:24:16]
And we said, Oh, let's try this. Let's just put this on there. And then you come back, towards the end of the show and let's see what it looks like. And we did, we put applied a couple of drops and [00:24:24] rubbed it in. And she came back like two hours later and it was like 50 percent better.
Already. And she had the redness like overnight through the whole morning. [00:24:32] It wasn't really getting better and we're like, wow, okay, so you can modulate the immune response on the skin as well with having the right microbial [00:24:40] balance and the shift happens fairly quickly, which is exciting.
Christa Elza: Yeah, that's fascinating.
Yeah, the quickness and people want a quick fix. Let me [00:24:48] tell you. Yes,
Kiran Krishnan: exactly. Yes. We don't have patients anymore. Right.
Sheree: So you've mentioned a couple of times and alluded to the body. I know we've [00:24:56] talked a lot about the face and you've said that we can actually put the sieve in body lotion and put it on the top, and that can really help with modulating the [00:25:04] skin.
I'm curious if you believe like we should be applying, apart from this, like lotions and that dehydrator, if it should be an internal [00:25:12] job, like when we're thinking about our skin health, like, I always think about this, there's the argument around the sun damage and do you wear sunscreen?
Like when we're [00:25:20] thinking about what we should actually be putting on topically, what is your stance?
Kiran Krishnan: Yeah. So, so lotions [00:25:28] are a kind of a temporary. Almost like a dome that, that prevents moisture loss on the skin, right? [00:25:36] And most lotions have a fatty acid or oil component to it. It's not the lotion itself that's moisturizing the skin.
And that's where the [00:25:44] misnomer is because the moisture on the skin, the true moisture of the skin is below the ceramide layer. And you maintain that through [00:25:52] hydration and proper hydration. And through having a proper uh, ceramide layer, in fact, that, that medicated lotion product called [00:26:00] Sarah V Sarah V, which was developed for dermatitis , or eczema which is a one of the features of eczema and dermatitis is a [00:26:08] very dry, flaky part of the skin because of pathogens that are in that region of broken down the ceramide layer, right?
So that part of the skin keeps getting dry and [00:26:16] flaky. They developed a synthetic. Ceramide that you put on top of the skin that will hopefully go and rebuild the ceramide [00:26:24] layer But the natural way of actually building the ceramides is by getting things like wheat germ and rice bran and and and various forms [00:26:32] of fiber, Phytoceramides which are found in lots of fibrous fruit foods are the source of ceramides [00:26:40] for our skin moisture.
So for true moisture on the skin, you need phytoceramides and you need hydration from the inside. And [00:26:48] then the lotions can act as a temporary mask to reduce the loss of moisture through the skin. The lotions don't actually go and hydrate the [00:26:56] cells like, like people think, I use lotion all the time.
I have a propensity to dry out shortly after a shower but my skin produces [00:27:04] enough oils where if I just left it You know within a couple hours it'd be Normal, but it's very it feels irritating to me right [00:27:12] after the shower if I don't have a layer of lotion on but I've really focused on getting enough phytoceramides through my diet and then also the [00:27:20] hydration internally there's in fact a great chocolate product.
There's a company I've worked with called Source, S O U R S E that, that [00:27:28] company, which you can find actually in Sephora and all that. Has this awesome dark chocolate with clinically relevant levels of phytoceramides in [00:27:36] it
All: And
Kiran Krishnan: it's a product called glow. It's a I wish I had it here. I eat it here all the time But it's an amazing like dark [00:27:44] chocolate experience and they have clinically relevant levels of phytoceramides in there that have shown To improve moisture and [00:27:52] glow in the skin.
So to me, I'm like, all right, I'll eat that one today. That's an easy fix, right? So that way
All: I ensure.
Kiran Krishnan: [00:28:00] Exactly. That way I ensure I get my dose of ceramides throughout the day. And it's a nice experience as well. Right. Eating a delicious chocolate. So they have that at like [00:28:08] Sephora and Whole Foods and places like that.
Christa Elza: Improve your skin by [00:28:16] eating. I think it is fascinating. And I think a lot of people don't know that at all. I wasn't really aware of how much ingesting the phytoceramides through [00:28:24] primarily fiber. That's another reason we need to be, careful. Eating fiber. It's not only for the gut microbiome for motility of the gut, but also [00:28:32] for the skin.
There's a lot to fiber. It sounds like, and that's something to really highlight. You gotta be a team player in this whole skin health, [00:28:40] anti aging thing. So creating your own, but then. Really sounds like this topical bacteria support helps to create more of [00:28:48] that topically as well.
Fascinating. Yeah,
Kiran Krishnan: It's a support. I think that's a great word. Because we know we're going to be doing things every day that damages skin [00:28:56] microbiome. So our view was like, okay, we got to create something that helps it rebalance each day so that we can do something about it or [00:29:04] people start to feel a little bit lost and they're like, I don't know what to do.
to do about it. I'm not, I can't stop the things that I know are not great for my skin [00:29:12] microbiome. And I don't know what to do about it, right? So we don't want people to be at that impasse. We want to provide people something that they can do to improve their [00:29:20] skin microbiome and their resilience.
And fortunately works amazingly well, right? That's the most exciting part about it. And and it's really catching on [00:29:28] among skincare professionals and estheticians and functional medicine practitioners as well.
Christa Elza: Yeah, is it something that more is better [00:29:36] like to apply twice a day if you're severe or is once a day just the standard?
Kiran Krishnan: Yeah, we've actually seen some improvements in people that [00:29:44] applied twice a day. People with like higher amounts of acne on the face, like, a higher density of inflamed lesions seem [00:29:52] to get a benefit, more benefit and fast and faster improvement when they apply it twice a day. But I think beyond that is probably has [00:30:00] diminishing returns.
And the applications really only, it's like on the entire face and neck, it'd be three drops. So it goes a little bit, [00:30:08] goes a really long way. But you can do that three drops twice a day. If you need to be on twice a day, I don't think I think that would be diminishing returns. [00:30:16] But, and then for the body lotion, I usually put about three or four drops in a palm full of lotion that I normally cover most of my body with.
And [00:30:24] that helps. And then every time I have like a bug bite or something irritating on my skin, like a little itchy spot or something [00:30:32] like that, I put it on there and that helps tremendously. So I just use it directly on there, one drop and rub it in and it helps. And in fact, my [00:30:40] latest sales rep that has been developed out of this is my 13 year old son.
Cause now he's like 16. selling it to all his friends because they're [00:30:48] all starting to get pimples, right?
And his friends always notice like, Hey, what? How come in one day your pimple is gone? If you get it? And he's like, Oh, my [00:30:56] dad has some crazy concoction. And that's how he describes it. And then and then his friends are like, Can I get some of that concoction?
And he's like, Dad, [00:31:04] How much would it cost me to buy some from you and sell it to my friends and I'm like
All: I'm not making a deal. He
Kiran Krishnan: sold [00:31:12] like four of these yesterday to his his prepubescent friends who are probably gonna be popping zits over the next couple years.
Sheree: I love that. It's [00:31:20] a great habit to be, establishing as well, because it's so much better to be putting something on that you, like you say, that actually can heal and can help.
This is, [00:31:28] oh my gosh, I'm going to go out and buy all sorts of cleansers or over exfoliate, or I'm going to try and do every other topical treatment under the sun. And I know that's a huge part of the [00:31:36] frustration, because your skin, It affects your confidence. It affects how you show up. And especially when you're going through those teen years, or I know I [00:31:44] got hit with another whole wave in my, like when I hit 27 and it was strange, a whole lot of my friends went through the exact same thing.
It was like, what [00:31:52] on earth has changed in our skin for me to some, no dietary changes happened, no other changes in my life has happened, but this massive [00:32:00] acne breakout and adult acne, I think is another whole. It is like nullifier, because you're going, I thought I dealt with [00:32:08] this crap when I was a teenager
All: and
Sheree: like back then I did do the antibiotics.
I did do the birth control pill. I was [00:32:16] on Accutane. Now I'm like, well, I wouldn't touch that with a 10 foot pole. How do I settle things down? I do have another question that [00:32:24] is really linked to that inside out approach. I know as a practitioner, I was always taught, like you have a gut overgrowth or an opportunistic bacteria [00:32:32] that almost forces its way.
Once it gets systemic out of the skin, that's when you start dealing with things like eczema. Like I remember being told my [00:32:40] candida overgrowth was the reason that I had a really itchy scalp and eczema on my scalp. How much of [00:32:48] that. Is true. And then like, how does that interlink with your skin microbiome?
Cause there's obviously different microbes externally versus internally. [00:32:56]
Kiran Krishnan: Yeah. So part of that is if you have a Candida overgrowth, it indicates a couple of things. So Candida, we [00:33:04] all have Candida within our system. That's a part of our commensal flora, right? Both on our skin in our passages, in our nasal passages and [00:33:12] all that.
Yeah. And then internally as well in our gut. The thing is, when candida overgrows, it's an indicator of a [00:33:20] dysfunctional immune system and microbiome because it's an opportunistic grower. Now, if candida can grow, it likely means that other [00:33:28] fungal or mold like microbes can grow as well.
In the case of flaky scalp, it's like it's likely mal, right? Or other. types [00:33:36] of fungals that can cause that flakiness and dryness. So the candida is really a surrogate marker, if you will, for a [00:33:44] system that's not functioning properly, that it's allowing a lot of function fungal overgrowth.
And some of those fungal overgrowth is going to have very [00:33:52] impactful outcomes on the skin. That In some men we have a great case for SIV where some men in their beards, they [00:34:00] have really dry flakiness in there, and that's a fungal overgrowth dandruff, and of course flaky skin is a fungal overgrowth but the candida becomes [00:34:08] a surrogate marker.
It's not necessarily the candida doing it, it's that when candida is overgrown, you know that other fungus is probably overgrown as well, other mold and [00:34:16] fungus and the other mold and fungus is likely what's causing the immune response and the flakiness.
Sheree: So can you use the sieve [00:34:24] in the scalp, but can I add it to my shampoo, like how would it work if I've got clients that are dealing with this or like you say, the case that you had with a lot of the males who [00:34:32] get the dandruff or the flaky scalp?
Kiran Krishnan: Yeah, you can absolutely add it to the scalp. You can just add it and you can part the hair, add it in the part and rub it in. Or [00:34:40] you can add it directly in the affected area and rub it in. You really don't need much more than two, three drops, even on the scalp. Depending on the affected area, of [00:34:48] course, you might need maybe three or four.
But you can cover a lot of surface area with just a couple of drops on there as well. You absolutely can use it in the [00:34:56] scalp. On the hair. We had one of our estheticians actually she had very dry hair no matter what she did with moisturizer and conditioner [00:35:04] and all that, her hair would just dry out.
And looked stringy and dry all the time. And so she was suspecting that maybe that's a result of a [00:35:12] microbial issue on the scalp itself. And and so she was not producing the right oils and those that wasn't funneling down to her hair. So she [00:35:20] started using it on her scalp and saw a huge improvement in kind of the shine and the moisture in the hair itself.
So this. All kinds of [00:35:28] interesting changes that can happen when you start balancing the microbiome.
Christa Elza: What about with pets?
Do dogs [00:35:36] have the same flora on their skin? I ask this because I've got several dogs that have skin issues and I would love to use [00:35:44] a more natural. And I think other people would have that question as well.
Kiran Krishnan: Yeah, they have similar flora, but a lot of the dysfunctional bacteria are [00:35:52] the same. The most common condition in dogs is atopic dermatitis which is likely driven by staph [00:36:00] aureus or maybe streptococcus in dogs as well, which is a similar organism that we have.
So we can absolutely be used on the [00:36:08] dogs on their surface, on their skin as well. Bacillus is a ubiquitous organism. The quorum sensing bacteria we use is [00:36:16] naturally found in the environment as well. So it's completely natural for animals and humans and all to encounter it. And that's likely a [00:36:24] normal way in which we build a relationship with this kind of organism is, we're in the dirt and we're getting in our system.
Once it comes onto our system, [00:36:32] it helps balance our biome. And then once the dirt's off the organisms off and that may be how through the course of evolution, we've developed this. [00:36:40] relationship with this microbe. For us, it's about really just engineering it into or formulating it into a serum that's easier [00:36:48] to use because most people are just not going to go roll around in regular dirt.
So I think it's perfectly normal for dogs, cats, any animals [00:36:56] because it's non comedogenic, which is really important. So we've done a whole bunch, a whole series of skin sensitivity, [00:37:04] toxicity, comedogenic testing, and all that. And we've proven that it's non comedogenic, meaning it doesn't form comedones or lesions.
It's not [00:37:12] toxic to the skin. It's safe for all types of skin, all races, all sensitivities of the skin. So we've completed all of those and it's [00:37:20] gotten dermatologist recommended stamp on it. Which is fantastic as well, because that was another thing to me is like. Okay, we let's establish [00:37:28] that it's fine and safe to use on lots of varieties of skin, right?
Because people are going to be using it in different parts in many different ways. The [00:37:36] only thing we say is don't use it on broken skin. So if your skin is broken and bleeding because we haven't tested it on that, I don't think there'll be any issue. But because we don't have [00:37:44] data on it, I refrain from recommending using it on that.
Sheree: So, obviously first step when we're wanting to heal our [00:37:52] skin microbiome is go and grab yourself some stuff. I'm like, do you ship to New Zealand? Can I buy it all? We do actually. [00:38:00] Yeah.
Kiran Krishnan: So FX FX Med in New Zealand is carrying it now. And Gutsy, Gutsy's carrying it too.
Sheree: Okay, fantastic news for [00:38:08] our Kiwi listeners.
I'm curious, alongside that, we know you are an absolute expert in barrier function and, we've [00:38:16] looked at leaky gut, we've looked at skin and leaky skin, if people are wanting something else to happen. To pair with this. Like we've said, that's an excellent [00:38:24] support. What would be your foundational things?
Like maybe just like three things, two or three things that people can pair alongside the [00:38:32] serve to notice the massive difference in their skin health and even anti aging.
Kiran Krishnan: Yeah, we had developed a product called serene [00:38:40] skin. It was a skin specific probiotic. So serene skin in combination with Civ works incredibly well.
I would then [00:38:48] increase probiotics. Prebiotic and fiber intake because the production of short chain fatty acids from the prebiotics and fiber [00:38:56] Has a huge impact on the skin, especially the formation of butyrate propionate and acetate and especially acetate has a [00:39:04] huge beneficial impact on the skin and then anytime you can up regulate your polyphenols or your You antioxidant [00:39:12] intake that's really important as well, because one of the main protections in the skin is an [00:39:20] antioxidant functionality because the skin is constantly going through oxidative stress because of UV radiation and so on.
And so the more [00:39:28] antioxidants you can take in you will actually find those antioxidants becoming present on the skin. We actually did a study with a [00:39:36] dermatologist looking at increasing carotenoids on the skin by ingesting carotenoids or taking a carotenoid rich probiotic. [00:39:44] And we found a dramatic increase in skin based carotenoids from taking it internally, right?
So using polyphenols, [00:39:52] carotenoids, all the colored fruits and vegetables those are going to be incredibly important for skin. For modulating and protecting the skin and [00:40:00] disruptions in the skin. So if you combine those internal things with sieve on the outside, and then on top of that, you're more conscious about things you may do to [00:40:08] harm the microbiome.
And trying to reduce some of those things that may harm. I think your skin will be perfectly fine.
Sheree: I know five is something we [00:40:16] actually had a massive talk about when you and I did a live and wondering if you can dive into that a little bit more, because there's actually. There's [00:40:24] so much research around this, if I'm correct, and how much it supports your skin health.
Kiran Krishnan: There is. So one one problem is an aside. I do have to jump to [00:40:32] another webinar, which starts at 3. 30 my time. Do we want to find a way to wrap or do we want to just continue this recording at a [00:40:40] different time?
Christa Elza: Yeah, let's wrap it. And then I think it's always room for more as things develop, let's do a
Kiran Krishnan: part three.
Yeah. [00:40:48] Yeah.
Christa Elza: Amazing. Okay, perfect. Well, I feel like we can finish it there. Yeah. Thank you so much for taking [00:40:56] your time to explain this. I think the stuff is so fascinating and so many people can benefit from it. So, let us know where we can find you and [00:41:04] we'll put in the show notes as well. But quickly, where can people find you and find your product?
so much.
Kiran Krishnan: Yeah, absolutely. So, look for me on instagram. My handle is [00:41:12] at kieran biome k i r a n b i o m e The product we've been talking about is civ s i v and you can find that on instagram at [00:41:20] ads at civ care doc, at civ care And then the website is www at civ care. com if people are [00:41:28] interested in checking it out and Functional medicine practitioners, aestheticians, skin care professionals.
We have wholesale accounts as well. So if [00:41:36] anyone's interested they can absolutely sign up for a wholesale account there as well. And then for the both of you, let me know your address so I can get you some, so you can start trying [00:41:44] it with your family.
Sheree: Yeah. Thank you so much for your time as always.
You're just such a wealth of knowledge. So really, really appreciate it.
Kiran Krishnan: It's my [00:41:52] pleasure. Thank you.
