Christa 0:00
All right, you guys, we have Amy Horniman here and she is an absolute wizard around all things thyroid. So I'm so excited that you're here, Amy. Yeah, introduce yourself. I mean, I introduced you. But you know, tell us a little bit about how you got into the space and how you kind of honed in and how did the thyroid become your passion.
Speaker 1 0:19
So thyroid into my life is from a pain to purpose story. I was if we rewind 20 some odd years ago, I was competing in fitness competitions, which for those who don't know what that is, basically, you're eating a super strict diet. You're hitting the gym twice a day, and you're standing on stage and in bikini to be judged. When you say it out loud. It sounds like I was like losing my marbles back then to even do something like that. But I loved the challenge. I had always battled weight as a little kid. So to get my body into the best shape and to have that challenge to do so. I loved it. I loved every minute of it. So I had done plenty of shows. I had done fitness modeling back then as well. dieted down for that. And I knew how my body was supposed to respond. So I knew how it had responded to all the other shows all the other shoots, I got ready for this one particular show I was getting ready for and it was a big one, it was the MPC, Pittsburgh and you know, a lot of pressure, a lot of competition, I had a coach, I was checking in with him every single week. And he did my diet, my workout regimen, I did everything to a tee perfectly. And every time I would get on the scale, the scale would go up. Literally, it wasn't even making sense. Like I don't care if you believe in calories in calories out or not. It didn't make sense when you're eating chicken, broccoli, asparagus, and you're hitting the gym twice a day, the scale shouldn't be going up, you shouldn't you shouldn't be losing some body fat. So the scale kept going up. And I mean, like 25 pounds. Plus, I stopped weighing myself after it hit 25 pounds. Because I became so depressed. So every week I step on the scale, it goes up, up up, I have to report to my coach. Now I'm feeling shame. Now I'm feeling a little bit of self blame, like okay, maybe it's me, maybe I'm not working hard enough. Maybe I am eating too much. Maybe I should eat less and exercise more, maybe, maybe, maybe. And all of that's going through your head. So my next logical step was to do what I think we all do in this situation. I went to my doctor, and I said, you know something's wrong, or something's wrong with my body. This isn't right. This doesn't make sense. Here's my diet. Here's my workout regimen, what the hell's going on with me. And he ran a couple tests to which I always say this, I would love to go back and see that lab work. I didn't keep it. I was in my 20s. I didn't know any better right than the doctor number one. So I didn't keep it. But he ran a couple of tests and says you're normal. Everything is fine. So I left his office and I'm like, You know what, this just doesn't seem right. I'm gonna go get that second opinion that everybody talks about. So I went to a metabolic specialist, i e endocrinologist. And I go into his office, I guess he ran a couple tests as well, who knows, tells me I'm normal. Everything's fine points to a BMI chart, and said some kind of bullshit that I just blew off. But by the time I got into my car, I put my head on the steering wheel, I just started crying. I'm like, There's something going on with my body. And nobody's giving me the answer. I kept going, though, I didn't stop I kept going. I went to a total of six doctors, who all told me I was normal and everything was fine. The Seventh Doctor, still an endocrinologist touches my throat first one ever touched my throat and says swallow. And she goes, Oh, you have nodules on your thyroid, we're gonna go get an ultrasound, you have Hashimotos here's a pill. So I was pumped up like I would have taken any diagnosis at that point, because it was an answer and an explanation as to what was going on with me. But I was also really pumped up that I had a pill, right? I thought this pill is gonna be the magic pill, it's gonna solve all my problems. I'm gonna lose my weight. This is awesome. And I gave it five months. And there was no change. Like not not a pound loss, nothing, no energy, no hair growth. I lost my hair. My energy was in the toilet. I could barely move I was in my 20s didn't want to go out didn't want to did. I didn't want to hang with friends who want to do anything. So I gave him five months. I go back to her. Well, first I started Dr. Googling, right, because well, Dr. Google, we start, you know, what can I do? What can I do? Now back then, thank God there wasn't Instagram ads for the next best supplement and the next best protocol and this program and that diet. So but I did find enough on the internet to know to go back to her and say, Hey, there's this thyroid hormone called T three. You gave me this little pill and it's T four. And this little pill this T four is enough. Active. It's not even the active thyroid hormone, T threes, the active thyroid hormone. Turns out when they're combined, they work really well together. Can we do that? She goes, No, I don't do that. So well, I'm gonna find somebody who does Thank you. And I kept hearing the name. And I think you all can resonate with this when God or the universe or whatever you believe, sends you signals. And it's multiple times, like three, four times you keep right? You have to pay attention. So I kept hearing the name of this functional provider. And I said, Okay, God, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go. So I go to see him. He spends 90 minutes with me, as opposed to your 10 Minute office visit. 90 minutes, he sits down. He does all of this testing, I had a book of tests. He's going through everything. He's asking me how I feel. He's actually looking at my diet and my supplements. And he's putting the pieces of the puzzle together. And he says, Well, here's what we need to do. Boom, boom, boom, boom, lays it all out totally different thyroid medication, where you use these supplements, we're going to change your diet a little bit. Let's do this. Let's do this. Check back with me, okay, we'll make another change. Boom, I get my life back, the weight drops off. Energy comes back hair starts growing again. Now mind you, I was in a major medical system. I was in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. So compare that UPMC medical system to Cleveland Clinic. Everyone knows Cleveland Clinic, Mayo Clinic, right? The best of the best, that's where you go. And I got zero answers. So at that point of time, I thought, okay, here I am, little me and my 20s in a major medical system, and I got the shaft and what if I would have stopped a doctor number four, doctor number five, I wouldn't be here with you today, I would be 200 plus pounds. And I would be laying on the couch probably on disability. Right. So that's what changed my career path right then. And there. He became my mentor, I studied under him. And I just went the route of functional medicine.
Unknown Speaker 7:04
That's amazing. Yeah,
Christa 7:06
I love I mean, there's so much in that whole story. And I think the place that I want to start to kind of help people, you know, just empowered health is your superpower is really what I just really believe. Right? And so for people to understand what lab work means, like you went to get your lab work done years ago and had no idea you didn't look at it. You didn't you just trusted whoever was telling you the information, right as most people, right. So can you talk to the different hormones. So you said t fours? Inactive. Right. So let's talk about the active forms and what people should really be advocating for themselves to check and look at and require their practitioner to check for them and what numbers are ideal for those murderers?
Speaker 1 7:52
Yeah, and this is really important and write this down if you have a pen and paper because or grab your phone because if you go into your doctor's office and you say, you know, I heard this woman on a podcast, I really want a full thyroid panel. It's not going to work, you're still only going to get one, maybe two markers. So you're gonna get TSH, thyroid stimulating hormone, that's a no brainer, that standard of care, everybody's going to check that and doctors are taught in med school that if TSH is above a 4.5, then we give T four. That was my scenario, right? They looked they tested, here's a pill T four. The problem is, is that T four is inactive. And TSH is the pituitary hormone. It's not a thyroid hormone. We see hypothyroidism in an absolute perfect TSH is I mean, even optimal. So functional medicine, we like that TSH to be below a two. If it's above a two, then we start to go, oh, let's look a little bit deeper here. If this pairs up with a boatload of thyroid symptoms, there could be something going on. But even if it's below a two, we still keep going, especially if someone is presenting with all those symptoms. So we look at the free T for the inactive thyroid hormone, we look at it, we take it, we take it into account, it's just a piece of the puzzle. We keep going we look at the free T three there's your active thyroid hormone, so we want to know how much the thyroid hormone is actually in your body. So we're gonna test that, then we're gonna go down to reverse T three, which is the anti thyroid hormone, reverse T three, I always use the analogy. It's like a bouncer at the club. So if reverse T three is elevated, it's standing outside of your cell door blocking T three from getting in. So it's basically like, oh, yeah, you're not getting in tonight. Nope, you're not getting in either. So it's preventing T three from getting to the cell to do its job to give you a metabolism to give you energy to grow your hair to give you brain power to like improve every day. All of that is on the thyroid, and it's dependent on that T three hormone attaching at the cell receptor site. So we want to look at that and then Finally, we want to check those two thyroid antibodies. So that's TPO and TGA. And that's going to tell us if you have Hashimotos 95% of all hypothyroidism is Hashimoto. So it's going to kind of be just, it's just going to be information. It's kind of something like, oh, we expected because most people with hypothyroidism have hace. But to know that I mean, knowledge is always power. And to know that now we can crack down a little bit. Now we can say, Okay, you have to be gluten free, no ifs, ands or buts about it, you have to be gluten free. And then maybe we'll use something like black cumin seed oil, which is phenomenal at lowering antibodies and stopping that auto immune attack. So it just gives us more information about you.
Sheree 10:48
So powerful, I love that you shared on that. And I think, you know, I've had kind of clients time after time after time, and they do run into that issue with their doctor. Is there I mean, aside from going into a functional medicine doctor, which is normally what I advise on top of, you know, getting some support nutritionally, is there a way with that, that you would actually suggest people go in and talk to their doctor about getting more or it's just go down the functional medicine route, because it's such a struggle that I had to fight tooth and nail to get antibodies tested for one of my clients and her antibodies were well over the two 300 Mark. And it was just insane. You
Speaker 1 11:27
know, that's the million dollar question right there. I do have a rule though. If your doctor says no to testing, it's time to get a new doctor. What's the point in trying to convince someone? Please, please test me to see what's going on with my body? No, please, please. Okay, if they give in? Do they even know what to do with the tests? I mean, half the time they're not ordering it, because they have no clue what to do with them when they come back. And number two, then, okay, now you know what to do with them. Now you have another argument on your hands. Now you have to go to your doctor and say, Well, look, you know, these tests that I convinced you to order, look at my numbers. They're not optimal. And we didn't even go through the optimal versus normal. I mean, that's a whole other list. Because you could come in normal. I see this all the time. Oh, my gosh, I have I have a membership in a Facebook group. So women are in there posting. And they're saying, but my doctor said I was normal. My thyroid is normal. And I always go, what's normal? What is normal? Is it optimal? Or is it normal? You just falling in that wide, vast, humongous standard lab value range? Are you in the bullseye of optimal functional medicine optimal? Where we want you to be? So there's that too? Like, how are you going to convince your doctor who didn't even want to order the tests in the first place? That l know you're not normal, you're not optimal. You're just in that normal lab value range, they have been trained to look at your labs and look for the H or the L or the red mark. And if they don't see an H or an L, they're moving on? They're moving on. If you're not high or low, they're moving on you're you're getting called normal and sent out the door.
Christa 13:04
What is your optimal T three that you'd like to keep people in? When you're looking at free? T three? I know I like to see it around 3.3. But where do you like to see it stay for people listening? If you if you can convince somebody to look at the whole picture. Your free T three is kind of the bottom line, wouldn't you say? I mean that compared to reverse T three. But yeah, yeah. What numbers for T three? And do you aim for? Well, the upper quadrant
Speaker 1 13:31
of the range? because it all depends on what lab you use. If you use LabCorp goes all the way up to a 4.4. So 3.3 would be it'd be okay. I mean, I have some patients that are often well on 3.3 and a 3.3. But normally, we have to go like a 3.7 closer to a four to really get them off to hold but it just depends on the lab. I mean, I've worked with patients overseas too. I just had one the other day she is in Spain or Italy. And her range for the free T three went all the way up to a six point something. So normally, you know we're looking at it, she's coming in at a four we go, Oh, that's good. Oh, wait, no, it's not because your lab value range is totally different. So just the upper quadrant of the range is a good rule of thumb.
Sheree 14:18
You didn't like I know we talked a little bit about this prior but like the Forgotten hormone, the T two. Can you touch on that a little bit.
Speaker 1 14:26
I love T two. It's my passion. So thyroid gland makes for thyroid hormones. T 1234. We talked about T four it's inactive. T three is active. T one is totally inactive. We can just kind of push that aside. teach you is another thyroid hormone that doesn't get much attention. I was called The Forgotten thyroid hormone. And it is so powerful. So I started studying this hormone about 15 years ago. And the big long name for it is three five diet odo l FIRA name and when you Look at the studies done on T chew in humans, the fascinating aspect of it is that number one, it will increase your basal metabolic rate. So the amount of fat that you're burning at rest the amount of calories you're burning at rest, it increases that changing nothing else. So it's acting on the metabolism, it actually stimulates brown adipose tissue, which is the the brown fat that we want, that is metabolically active as well. So brown fat actually helps us burn the white squishy fat that we don't want on our bodies. Brown fat is filled with mitochondria, that's what gives it that brownish beige color. And those mitochondria are all also stimulated by T two, because teaching works at the mitochondrial level to help produce more ATP. And that's your your energy. So that's going to get you through the day. So it's going to improve your energy, it's going to improve your fat burning. And those with thyroid problems, we all have issues with losing weight, and we're gaining weight by you know, looking sideways at a brownie, right, so this is going to actually increase the basal metabolic rate. Now, T two is available over the counter, whereas T three and T four, the medication that T three men that I had to beg for that is prescription only. So that's another benefit of T two is that anyone can use it and it has no thyroid mimetic effects, meaning it's not going to change your thyroid lab values for you to look like your hyper it's not going to decrease your TSH or increase your T three, your doctor isn't going to look at it and say, What are you doing, you're messing up your thyroid. So really anyone can use it with or without a thyroid problem who wants to lose weight. And number two, it has no cardiovascular side effects. So when we look at fat burners on the market, you know, even like the old school fat burners and the ephedra and all that, that hydroxy cut that seriously, I should have died on the amount that I've taken. I mean, I'm surprised that and I've already attack, but those stimulate the cardiovascular, they raise your heart rate to three raises your heart rate when I use T three with some patients, they might report back, listen, I feel like my heart's pounding and I'm getting palpitations and my heart rates too high. T two doesn't do that. So it's very, I mean, I added into everyone's protocol who has low energy or needs to lose weight, I will add it in with people that say, you know, I don't know if I have a thyroid problem, but I tend to lose weight. Okay, yes, you can safely take tea to, it's not going to screw you up, it's not going to increase your heart rate, it's not going to screw up your thyroid. I mean, it's just it's, it's a beautiful hormone that just doesn't get enough love. It really doesn't. I
Christa 17:39
have not been giving it love at all. And I have a patient currently who's really struggling with losing weight. And you know, she's one of those that kind of she eats well, she's committed to exercise. When she gets too high in you know, the combo, so two pi in that nature, nature thyroid or arm or whatever that contains t 43. She does have a lot of high heart rate with exercise. So she becomes exercise intolerance. She doesn't like that, obviously. And so we really haven't been able to push the envelope with getting her T three to a certain level. So can you speak to those kinds of patients? I mean, okay, I'm hearing T two. Also, let's talk a little bit about other hormones that might be playing a role in conjunction with right because we know hormones work in a symphony, right. So I would love to hear maybe in this particular patient, she's pretty, you know, very close to menopause. It's, I think she's around 49. So sex hormones and insulin levels and thyroid, how do those kind of work together to kind of help or destruct one another? Depending on? Yeah.
Speaker 1 18:42
Well, they're all kind of in the playground together, right? They all feed off of each other. They play well together most of the time. But if thyroid is off, and then everything else is going to be off, it's like thyroid, the, the big brother that oversees everything, it's the master. So when the thyroid gland is off, it's going to naturally throw off the sex hormones. And most of the time we'll see, especially in men will see low testosterone big time, like almost 100% of the time, that low thyroid function goes with low testosterone and then we'll see a lot of low tea and women and then we'll see either estrogen dominance or sometimes an early onset menopause or perimenopause or estradiol starts to tank progesterone will I mean progesterone already tanks in your 30s? It just it just goes way, way, way in the toilet when we have hypothyroidism so that anxiety that you can get from like you said, adding T three n or just the anxiety and depression that come from hypothyroidism because it affects your mood. That's exacerbated with low progesterone since progesterone is the calming hormone, so we always have to do hormones right alongside thyroid, as you know, and then insulin I see probably about 95% of all hypothyroid cases involve insulin resistance at the same time. I'm because there's that, that that signaling is off and I'm you might have a person that eats beautifully, I mean, legit beautifully. They don't just say it and then you look and you go, did you think this was good? I mean, honestly, like you're looking they have 120 grams of protein, it's all whole food, it's all organic, they're balancing their carbs are getting in good fat, and you go, this doesn't even make sense that they are insulin resistant. Why is there a one C basically diabetic and their insulin, the 17? Well, it all comes back to the thyroid. So you go back to the thyroid, and you fix that. And that's the other thing that T two will do as well, it helps with insulin resistance. So now you fix the thyroid, throw in some thyroid fixer is t to throw in some T to throw in some Berberine. And now you're balancing everything at the same time their insulin comes down, their agency comes down. Now they can tap into their fat stores for fuel and they're losing weight.
Sheree 20:54
And what? Sorry, what? antibody component to that, like, do you find that the antibodies are part of the reason that they're super, super high, and they've got Hashimotos? That that's why they're not shifting the weight. And if you do this same sort of approach, it'll fix it because what you describe is exactly what one of my clients was struggling with. And there was just nothing and she was eating perfectly exercising perfectly. You said Yeah,
Speaker 1 21:20
yeah. You know what antibodies I actually have a podcast that's entitled, don't hang your hat on your antibodies, because I'm sure you guys see this to people that are hyper obsessed with their antibodies. Oh my God, why did my antibodies go by 100? I'm like, Ria glutened. At a restaurant. Baby. Did you have a cold? They're like, Oh, yeah, I'm like, man. Okay. Were you under some stress? Yeah. So it's not? Yes, the ultimate goal is to lower antibodies, right. And when we look at the studies of even black cumin seed oil, I'll use that across the board with Hashimotos all the time, because the study is on black home and see it oh my god that helps with weight loss. That's what I put in in Hashimoto six or that helps with weight loss. That helps with insulin resistance that helps with hair and anti cancer properties to which is crazy, crazy, but now we might stack that with low dose Naltrexone as well. So now we have two things coming in to lower the antibodies. And ultimately, we want to push those antibodies to zero. But if we don't get there, here's what I always say to patients. I can show you someone that has optimal free T three, optimal reverse T three, they have no symptoms whatsoever, but they still are walking around with 500 antibodies. They're trying they're sleeping, they're gluten free. They're doing all the things that will come down eventually not a problem. They don't care. They're living their best life. I got Suzie Q over here that has zero antibodies. Yeah, she's worked really hard. Gluten Free sleep and stress reduction lifestyle. She's rocking that but she's not on the right thyroid medication. So her reverse the threes and 20 her free T threes in the toilet. She doesn't care that she has zero random blonde, it's because she feels like absolute garbage. And she is gaining weight looking sideways at a brownie who has the better scenario. I'll take the antibodies all day long, the perfect numbers and no symptoms.
Christa 23:13
True going back a little bit on like the hormone connection. So when we have women, sometimes heavy periods, and then they become anemic. Can that also reverse it? I see a lot of times when there's low iron. Now we're not really converting. Well, right? Do you see that? And yes. Also the interconnectedness right of it's just one thing leads to another in this vicious cycle. Yeah, so also checking markers, I guess when we're talking when we're asking our doctor and giving them this laundry list of things we want checked. We also want an iron study. All right.
Speaker 1 23:43
Definitely iron and ferritin. Because low ferritin will mimic hypothyroid symptoms. So we always want to check. Yeah, that full iron panel with ferritin. And yes, your point, I mean, it will absolutely drive up reverse T three, there's many causes of elevated reverse T three, low ferritin. And or anemia is one of them. I wanted
Christa 24:05
to go back to just your history of working out. And you know, the stress that we have on our body. And sometimes I know as women were like, the more we work out the better diet. And there is a whole group of people that take part in some of these bikini contests and do all of these things, right? They think, you know, what's the what's the harm, I'm just gonna lose some weight and look my best and then I'll go back to living. And I've had multiple patients where they've done this and they've done this lifestyle for a few years. And then like the opposite, all of a sudden, they've really done some damage to the body. Can you kind of speak to how people can maybe two things, number one support themselves while they're doing this? Because I think it's amazing. I think it's a great thing to do, right? But is there a better way to support yourself with let's say supplements that support your adrenals and thyroid during that time? And then if they're finding themselves, that ship already sailed and now they're in the tank, what do you recommend to kind of build that back up for these women?
Speaker 1 24:57
Yeah, it's so hard. So whenever anyone comes to me and talks about competing. I tried to talk about it first, because I let them know that that it's very, very hard to do this and not kind of punch your metabolism a little bit. I mean, these days, I think trainers, most trainers have a much better grasp on being able to diet someone down in a more healthy way. I mean, there's still some whack jobs out there that put women on, you know, 1000 calories a day, I've seen it. But, but there are ways to do it. Now we're, we're counting macros, and you know, you just lift heavy, you don't have to crush yourself with cardio, or you just do a little bit of a hit workout. I mean, my God, back in the day, I was literally doing two hours of cardio. I remember going through magazine after magazine, right, this dates me that's an IT magazine after magazine on the stepper or on the step mill, and, and I mean, just hours and hours and hours, which we know now is catabolic, it's going to increase your cortisol, it's gonna throw off your glucose don't do that. So if you're smart about it, and you do it the right way, I think it can be done without crushing your metabolism. But it is really, really hard to do without at least punching your metabolism. And I gotta tell you, even a few years ago, I was in a gym where there was a lot of competitors. And I thought to myself, like I saw a couple of the girls and their bikinis and their heels and they're doing the posing practice, and they look so good. And I'm like, Oh, maybe I shouldn't compete again, until they got done with the show. And then every single one of them gained 40 pounds. And I'm like, that's why I don't compete anymore. Because that thinking Yo yo, that happens with your weight. And now they're all screwed up. Right? So you know, I guess nutrient wise, I mean, number one, yeah, you want to make sure your your macros are on fire, your calories aren't too low your proteins up, keep your muscle, make sure you're taking in amino acids. Even taking something like iodine is really helpful for supporting your thyroid function. Even if you don't have a thyroid problem. Taking iodine support your thyroid function as you are moving through that that dieting phase, even some DF taking something like T two instead of T three. So I saw an interview I'm kind of diverting here, but it's pertinent. I saw an interview with a bodybuilding while it was actually a figure pro trainer. So he trains the girls that have their pro card. They're on the Mega stages, the Arnold, the Olympia all of that top of the best, best of the best. And he says, I do not let them use T three. Because again, in the bodybuilding world, we were the OGS of biohacking before anybody started on peptides, we were doing it before ghrp was a thing. We were taking it. So yes, T three was abused in bodybuilding to burn fat as you're getting ready for a show, because that's what it does, except it also burns muscle. So he says I do not let my women use T three to get ready for a show. Because number one, it's going to grow their muscle, and it's going to grow their fat to it's going to grow their muscle that they're working so hard to keep, and it's going to cause a thyroid problem at the end. So then they're going to come out of the other end of the show. Now they need thyroid medication. And now that next show is going to be a lot harder, because their thyroid function just slow down. He says I use t too, because to choose FERS muscle, it only burns fat, and it does not cause a thyroid problem. And when I heard that I was like, Yay, that's what I've been saying all along. Right? That's the right way to do it. So that's what I would say I would say if you're if you're going to do that level of physique change, to do a show, I would absolutely do all the things to ensure that you keep a metabolism and don't shut down your own thyroid function in the midst of it.
Christa 28:50
Yeah, that's helpful. And what about healing kind of is some of the healing after is that more of a focus on adrenal health versus directly giving medication to thyroid? Because we know that cortisol can definitely affect the thyroid hormone as well, right?
Speaker 1 29:06
Oh, yeah. And I mean, let's face it, exercise is a stressor anyways, great stressor. It's a fantastic stressor, but it's still a stressor. So then you take that, that more extreme diet and that extreme exercise, and yes, that's a huge stressor on the body cortisol rises. Yes, supporting your adrenal afterwards is amazing that I would do right off the bat. And then a lot of people do reverse dieting. So instead of you know, you go out that night, and you eat basically everything inside because you're like, Yay, I get to eat doughnuts and pizza now and yeah, you gain some weight and you'll put on a couple pounds of water weight after that, but then you get in the next day and you immediately get back into your cleaning regimen as much as you want to just go to you know, a buffet and strap on the feedbag you go into a reverse diet. So so that those pounds don't all of a sudden spring back on that they slowly kind of creep on that you can go back to the weight that you should be, I won't say the weight that you were before you died, because that might have been too heavy, but you just kind of float up a couple of pounds into that nice, healthy, sustainable weight. Mm.
Sheree 30:19
As a personal trainer for a very long time. And you see this time and time again, in the competition industry, like in the big bodybuilding shows, and I love that you've shared so much on that because it's bringing to light what a lot of people still aren't talking about. I'm grateful that the interviews or the guy is talking about the right type of thing. But you do see it time and time again, where it really does screw up the metabolism. And then it really especially as woman and I know as men as well, like it does a number on your head. And it really plays with your mind when you can't get your way Your metabolism, your even your energy back. And I do want to pivot a little bit here, because I know that you brought this up a little bit earlier. But can you talk a little bit about the gluten connection with the thyroid and the gut connection with the thyroid? Because it's definitely my jam. I love talking about all things gut health, but I don't think people really understand when you say the body works together. Just how much it all works together.
Speaker 1 31:16
Absolutely. Okay. So when we're talking about autoimmune conditions, and you may have heard this from autoimmune gurus out there, and even gluten gurus who, oh my god, Alessio Fasano, I haven't heard him in a while but I love hearing him speaks got this sexy voice. He started to describe the three legged stool right? He's funny as how sexy voice describes the three legged stool of auto immunity. He says, okay, with autoimmune, there's three legged stool. One leg is the genetic predisposition. Your mom had Hachi or there's autoimmune in your family. The next leg is leaky gut, which pretty much all of us have right unless you're living in the rainforest in a bubble. So you can assume that and then that third leg is a trigger, and he really focuses on gluten as being the trigger. Now gluten can come over and cause leaky gut, we know that that's a cause of leaky gut. But it's also one of the triggers. So his theory is when you knock out one leg of the stool, the stool can't stand if it's a three legged stool. So now you take down auto immune by removing one of the legs, ie gluten, then when we go a little bit deeper into the thyroid gland, specifically, and we look at what makes up gluten, it's the Lian molecule. That's the gluten is the protein molecule of gluten. And we look at the chemical structure of it, it looks very much like the thyroid gland. Let's go back to Hashimotos for a second Hashimotos autoimmune. How do we best describe it, soldiers, these soldiers that are in your body that think that your thyroid gland is a bad guy, they're just totally confused. And they like to go out and they to start a war and beat up your thyroid gland. When gluten comes in, those soldiers see gluten because it looks molecular in structure just like the thyroid gland, those soldiers that are used to going out and attacking the thyroid gland because it's the bad guy. They see gluten coming in and go, Hey, there's an invader coming in. This is this is the invader that we like to attack. So let's go out and start a war. So your soldiers will be released, they go out and attack the gluten, but that's not necessarily a good thing. Basically, what they're doing is attacking your thyroid gland. Because the gluten came in kind of it's like a Trojan horse. It's like looking like the thyroid gland. Oh, let's start a war. And you use basically launch an attack on your own thyroid gland every single time you eat gluten. If you have autoimmune now we know with autoimmune auto immune begets autoimmune where we see when we see more than one. So every time you eat gluten, you're also building your army. So eventually, when your thyroid gland is totally destroyed, and there's nothing more to attack anymore, the soldiers are gonna go somewhere else. They might go to your small intestine, celiac, your joints, rheumatoid arthritis, God forbid, your brain and your spinal cord. Ms. So do we really want to go down that path? Or do you just want to go gluten free? Huh?
Sheree 34:18
Thank you for sharing that so well. And we've talked heaps about Hashimotos. What about the other side of thyroid autoimmunity? Like what about the graves and how that differs or is actually they're just a lot of overlap.
Speaker 1 34:34
You know, we just don't see it that much. I mean, there are I don't specialize in hyperthyroidism. I don't see it very often. What I see are the people that had graves that had their thyroid gland, radioactive iodine or removed. Now they're hypo and oftentimes they will have Hashimoto antibodies in addition to Gray's antibodies, and now we're starting kind of it Ground Zero and building them back up again. Because nine times out of 10, after thyroidectomy, or after radioactive iodine, the doctors are giving them T for only. And honestly, I am I am careful in my words, but I say it anyways, it's almost a form of malpractice, in my opinion, because if you remove the gland that produced T four and T three, you remove the gland that is the main conversion gland of T four and T three. And I'll come back to the gut for you too, because the gut, peripheral tissues, the liver and the thyroid gland are your conversion sites of taking that inactive thyroid hormone and making it active converting it to T three, the thyroid gland is the mack daddy conversion gland. Yes, it will happen in other locations in your body, but the thyroid gland is the mack daddy. So now we take that out. And now we give someone T for only when you just think about that it doesn't even make sense. Every patient that has every person out there, if you've had your thyroid gland, radioactive iodine, or removed or even partially removed, if you're not on T three, and T four or T three, only go get a new doctor because you will never ever feel your best ever you will live with symptoms the rest of your life, they will get worse. And that's no way to live.
Christa 36:27
Yeah, it's fascinating, how some guidelines are just why why why is this even? And graves can be really challenging also, right? Because people just what do I do, and making the decision with graves for listeners, you know, Graves is the opposite. You get hyper thyroid, it's over stimulated. And so making that decision to completely remove it versus, you know, medically hopefully, you know, taking medications that kind of help suppress some of the symptoms suppress the heart rate, that kind of a thing. It's it's a decision that someone's got to make. But I think if you make the decision to eradicate it, the tissue or to remove it. Yeah, find a doctor who's going to fully support your thyroid hormone after Right,
Speaker 1 37:08
right, right. I don't have a problem. If you have it removed. I have so many patients that come in like oh man, I just wish I would have had you sooner, I wouldn't have had it removed. Like it's okay. It's okay. We will build those hormones back up. It's not a big deal. And sometimes it's easier actually my best friend's mother. I was working with her for a while and then she would just swing from one side to the other. So she had Graves disease, they gave her methimazole shut her thyroid down. Now. Now she's hypo. Now she got all the hypo symptoms and she had Hashimoto antibodies. So now the pendulum is on the other side. So now they're given Synthroid, we added in some T three, nope, that jacked up, boom, right back to the other side. And at some point of time, about six months out, and she would not change her lifestyle, either. So there was that, but six months down the road, I'm like, You know what, just have her take it out. Just Just get it out. And let's start over because this pendulum is swinging. It's like you're just chasing this this pendulum and, and it's, it's ridiculous. So some people are in that position, where it's, it's harder to manage the two ends than to just take it out and start over.
Christa 38:16
Yeah. So I think the takeaway there is do what you need to do for you. But make sure you're supporting those hormones, and you're working with somebody who understands the dynamic of exactly,
Speaker 1 38:26
just do it the right way. And your mind will be different, right? Yeah.
Christa 38:29
Yeah, I'd like to shift gears again, one more time to talk about peptides. But let's talk about there's appetite ozempic, some blue tide? You know, let's talk about some of these because they are all the rage right now. And I think, you know, me personally, I do prescribe them for patients, because there is so many benefits to so many people. However, there are side effects. And often I see that people who have the side effects are not managing their diet appropriately with these medications. So they're kind of misusing them. They're not being responsible with them. But for those that, you know, there's probably a large population that are very irresponsible with this, what are you seeing in terms of thyroid for these patients who have just kind of taken it? And they said, Oh, I don't know. I didn't want to eat me things. So I didn't and then my hair's falling out, and my toenails are popping off and but I'm skinny, right? You know, ultimately, we know where it's gonna bounce back and be a bigger problem later, like literally and figuratively a bigger problem later. Well would what's your advice to people who have said hey, I am taking the injection to really protect our thyroid in in the, you know, in the process of losing weight?
Speaker 1 39:42
Yeah, so I do I'm with you. I'm right there in the middle. I think that these GLP is have very Houghton actions on the body and are a beautiful answer to people who are stuck and who cannot Lose weight and no matter what they do, and who have uncontrollable elevated a onesies and insulin, and I really think that they they are the answer to prayers for certain people. However they are also I lovingly call them the Beverly Hills soccer moms drug of choice for weight loss because you got all these not to rub on Beverly Hills soccer moms, but you got all these right, women out there, like I just need to lose 15 pounds, so I'm going to start it on it. And they're under eating, they're losing muscle, we have things called Manjaro face now where you're losing the fat in your muscle, I've seen women that have used this abuse it they won't get off of it and they look emaciated. They look horrible, they look 10 to 15 years older than they are, I mean, that's not even counting like the hair loss that you're talking about. And the nails falling off. I mean, they're losing muscle. And so I tell people, if you're going to do this, I want you to eat protein, like it's your job. And I don't care if you're not hungry, do a protein shake three times a day, make that protein shake two scoops of a nice bone collagen base protein. And, and I don't care if you're getting 40 grams of protein three times a day, because that's all you can get down, do it. Because if you don't, the consequences are huge. And if you don't really change your diet in the meantime to like, if you're going on these things, because you have a voracious appetite, you can't lose the weight, nothing's controlling it. And, and you know, you just, I don't know, you just feel like you can't change your habits. Unless you do this, then work on changing your habits while you're doing it. Because there's gonna come a time where you have to go off of it, there's gonna come a time maybe that it's not available anymore, that becomes so expensive that you won't be able to afford it anymore. You're gonna have to have control over the food that goes into your mouth at that point. Yeah,
Christa 41:53
I think people to pay attention exactly what you said protein and nutrition should still be the focus. And what I think people misunderstand is like, this is a great opportunity. And it's a tool for you to really switch habits that maybe were difficult to for you before because of you know, cravings and this and that. But, you know, looking at our body and thinking, it doesn't mean anything. I mean, all of these things are symptoms of your body saying we are depleted in something. So if your hair is falling out, if you're, you know, your labs look all wonky. Time to start focusing on nutrition, right? Yeah. Anything else that
Sheree 42:29
I know we were going to and you talked about it being a conversion organ and everything like that. So can we dive into that I just I love everything. gut health
Speaker 1 42:38
is a conversion area. So it does help convert t 43. And, you know, we just know that there's the inflammatory aspect of thyroid condition. So when the body is inflamed in any way, shape, or form, and what's the main way that it gets inflamed? Well, okay, yeah, we know stress, but elevated insulin levels, the fastest way to age, keep your insulin levels high, right. And then when we're eating those high carbohydrate processed foods, enter the gut. And they cause that gut permeability, in addition to toxins and things, you air your environment, on and on and on all kinds of things cause that gut permeability. But when we're keeping our insulin levels high, and we have that inflammatory response in the body, and on top of that we have leaky gut like most of us do. Those toxins, those lipid polysaccharides get into the bloodstream, and now they're causing the systemic full body inflammation. How is the thyroid gland going to produce the right amounts of T four and T three, if there's inflammation in the body, it just can't work. That inflammation is also going to trigger an autoimmune attack again, reading up the thyroid gland can't work. Now we have this this inflamed environment that we're asking that environment to work properly, please convert T four to T three in the gut. Please produce serotonin 95% and 90 95% of all serotonin has been in the gut. You're wondering why you're depressed. And you're wondering why you're anxious. Yeah, your thyroid to but your guts a disaster. So that's kind of layering on top. So everything is every everything working together in the body so beautifully. So now we have, you know, reduction of serotonin, we have a thyroid problem. We have mood issues. We have inflammation, we have inflammation in the gut, we have high insulin, I mean, the body just becomes a disaster. So yes, we want you to heal your gut. And then there's even the taking of the medications. I have some patients that no matter what we give them. I mean, I had a patient on a really high dose of armor a really high dose of T three, and her T three level wouldn't budge. You know, she put she put her medication vaginally and it finally went up. So what did that tell us? It's your gut. Her gut is such a disaster. It can't even it's not even breaking down and assimilating the medication that she's taking on an empty stomach. It's crazy. So you have to, you have to focus on and heal the gut, if you ultimately want to heal anything else in the body
Sheree 45:16
100% is the root cause that's what I believe anyway, the root cause of all disease. So, and you mentioned the medication, and you've also got a beautiful supplement range. Can you talk a little bit about like, is your priority normally to go with more natural route? Do you mix the two? Do you lean into the medication? If they need that primarily, like how does that typically work? If someone were to come and see you and work with you to really reset and support the third? Both?
Speaker 1 45:39
Absolutely both. Because I knew so I knew my journey. And I knew how hard it was to get on the right. thyroid medication. And even when we're talking about thyroid medication, I think it's important to call it thyroid hormone replacement. Because you're replacing hormones that are no longer being properly made. I do have a lot of people who will not a lot, I have a tiny handful of people that say, Okay, I really want to do this naturally. What does that look like? You know, I mean, we could spend another year, doing supplements and diet changes and healing your gut and all the things but I can't promise that you're magically going to produce enough T three, to give you the life that you want and reduce your symptoms and get you into the optimal range. And actually, that's why I call BS on so many thyroid specialists out there that are in the functional space. And they're saying my program will heal your thyroid, well, they can't prescribe. So they're going around around saying just do this gut healing program, just do this adrenal healing program and your thyroid problems will go away. Like oh, no, they won't. You're just seeing that and selling that to them because you can't prescribe. And that's why I work so hard. I have prescribers in all 50 states, because I'm like, if I'm going to work with someone, I'm not going to bullshit them, I am not going to tell them that we can do something that we can't do. And and very, very, very often thyroid hormone replacement is needed. Now, every so often, you'll have someone that's right on the border where you go, you know, I think we can do this naturally. I think we can use bio regulators and peptides and ion and magnesium and selenium and address their cortisol and just their blood sugar and heal their gut, and maybe use black cumin seed oil to bring those antibodies down. And I think they're going to be okay, at least for a few years, we'll keep an eye on him. Maybe there'll be a time where we have to bring in thyroid hormone replacement. But I think right now we're okay. But I gotta tell you, the people that come to see me, they've been pushed around the medical system for decades, they've dealt with these symptoms for years, if not decades. They're done. They're done with the protocols and programs that promise results that don't. So yes, we give them thyroid hormone replacement, and we do the supplements at the same time based on what they need. Yeah,
Sheree 47:57
I love that, too. Yes. And tracking, integrating in medicine. So I really appreciate your sharing on that. It's it's must give a lot of people a lot of confidence as well to be able to feel okay, they're finally being taken care of, which is the main thing I think with our health and our well being is having someone to listen, having someone to support having someone that's got the right guidance, and who's actually going to go the extra mile to make sure I know the results aren't always our responsibility, but really to help them heal. Right, exactly.
Christa 48:28
Yeah, I agree. I have seen some patients just we'll start with gut healing, but they don't really pick up until we start with, you know, some direct thyroid supplementation, because, yeah, for whatever reason, that's just it's dragging. And you know, when people feel better, they often do better. And then their body heals faster. If we give them a boost, to do something, they have the motivation, right to get quality workouts and the meal plan and do the things and they don't feel depressed and they can, they can now poop normally, and all of those things that contribute to overall health, then we just it kind of feeds on itself. So yeah, this conversation has been amazing. I hope all of you listening have really had some epiphanies and AHA is of wow, I really can get help. I really can feel better. And so Amy, where can people find you if they want to work directly with you with their thyroid? Absolutely.
Speaker 1 49:19
So you can go to Dr. Amy horniman.com and click on the book a call page. We give you a we do free consultations, we're gonna go over your health we'll go over the different programs that that line up with what you've been dealing with. So you can do that you can listen to me on the thyroid fixer podcast as well to kind of dive into all things that I roid Of course, I'm on social and I do have a membership. It's called the better thyroid and hormone club. And in there if you're kind of not quite sure yet, like do I have a thyroid problem two and not have a thyroid problem. You can even join that we give you a discount or fix or supplement you can grab your thyroid fixed you can grab Hashimotos fixer start on those at a discount, and you can post your labs and do a live lab. Reed so we do live lab reads and q&a is with experts. I'm in there doing the lab reads as well. And we can tell you, Okay, here's what's going on with you. And maybe we do need to take you a little step further, or, Hey, you're kind of borderline, go ask your doctor for this and this and see if they'll do it. So we really dialing you properly into what direction you need to go.
Christa 50:22
I love that. Amazing. Thanks again, so much. So thank you. Thank you so much for taking the time to be with us and just share all of your beautiful knowledge around the thyroid and using your experience to the benefit of others. I think it's amazing when you find a practitioner who can empathize with how you're feeling, and I think you do that beautifully. And I've kind of taken your experience and are passing that blessing along. So thank you so much for being here.
Unknown Speaker 50:48
Thank you both. Thank you
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
